Resurrected Physical Bodies

[Robin]

 http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5547.0.html

   COMMENT:  Actually I have NEVER written about "the second death" as yet, and I have never said that when someone dies that they, "are no more."  When a person dies they are not conscious, and their body decays, and their spirit returns to God, but there is no consciousness IN THE SPIRIT. It is the spirit that gives LIFE TO THE BODY, and so without a living body, there is no consciousness. Jesus will save them by bringing them back to life through RESURRECTION. The righteous believers will be resurrected with glorified spiritual bodies, and the wicked unbelievers with physical bodies to face Judgment. It is in Judgment that the wicked will be ultimately saved.

I thought I read somewhere that Ray said the physical bodies would not be resurrected. I was wondering this whole time how the carnal mind could be purged from a spiritual body. I have no idea how I formed that conclusion from the writings and I don't even know where I was reading. There is so much material.

So are the wicked raised with physical bodies on a physical earth? Can anyone point me to one of Ray's papers that explains this?

[indianabob]

M G please read my message  today in "only the elect are raised spiritual" thread
Hopefully it will add some understanding.

If not we will pursue it further.

Regards, Bob

[Robin]

Thanks Bob.

I'll go find it.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Bob & MG,

This is a topic that can provide interesting opinions and debate but I have yet to find any definitive answers, only tidbits here and there. Bob you present some reasonable points but I really can't say for sure how God is going to accomplish this and what His method will be in completing this work of the fall harvest. The  only thing I know for certain is that He will be successful!

Praise God!

Joe

[Evan600]

Hi Bob & MG,

This is a topic that can provide interesting opinions and debate but I have yet to find any definitive answers, only tidbits here and there. Bob you present some reasonable points but I really can't say for sure how God is going to accomplish this and what His method will be in completing this work of the fall harvest. The  only thing I know for certain is that He will be successful!

Praise God!

Joe

I have to agree Joe.  I don't see any definitive answer to this question either.  I'm going to have to read Bob's post as well though.

- Jason

[jER]

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5547.0.html

   COMMENT:  Actually I have NEVER written about "the second death" as yet, and I have never said that when someone dies that they, "are no more."  When a person dies they are not conscious, and their body decays, and their spirit returns to God, but there is no consciousness IN THE SPIRIT. It is the spirit that gives LIFE TO THE BODY, and so without a living body, there is no consciousness. Jesus will save them by bringing them back to life through RESURRECTION. The righteous believers will be resurrected with glorified spiritual bodies, and the wicked unbelievers with physical bodies to face Judgment. It is in Judgment that the wicked will be ultimately saved.

Did not Jesus inform Nicodemus that the FIRST BIRTH is PHYSICAL and the SECOND BIRTH is SPIRITUAL, that of being - "born again."

Then, it would only stand to reason that it is the same for death: FIRST DEATH is PHYSICAL and SECOND DEATH is SPIRITUAL.

Thus,

"He that overcomes shall not be hurt by the Second Death." (Revelation 2:11)

Hence,

"He that overcomes" must have already died "the second death" and it cannot hurt him/her.

"Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:11)

The "Second Death" is the death (or dying to) of sin [carnality – for the fleshly mind is enmity against God] which will take place now for the elect and for those who do not overcome in this age - at the "Lake of Fire."

Could it be that the body of the wicked will be resurrected immortal?

"...but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." (see I Corinthians 3:13-15 and Revelation 20:13)

Is not "he" the person - the soul, or if you will, the spirit of that person?

Just a thought, or two...

-jER

[jER]

...And, the sea (of humanity) gave up the dead...in it; and death and hades (i.e. the grave or unseen), delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Revelation 20:13-15)

And (after the judgment) death and hades (aka hell) were cast into the lake of fire.

This is the Second Death!

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

But the fearful (timid)...unbelieving...abominable... murders...sexually immoral...sorcerers...idolaters...and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8 )

It is noteworthy that DEATH and the GRAVE have already been "cast into the lake of fire", thus, has been abolished BEFORE the wicked are tossed (to and fro) in this lake. Therefore, can the wicked physically now die - if death has already been "destroyed"?

Jesus said "He came to destroy the Works of the Devil" (I John 3:8 ), and the works of him, is Sin! (...the Lord will save the man, himself, but the sin nature of man will be destroyed).

I really enjoyed Rays contrasting of the Lake of Fire with the Lake (sea of freshwater) of Galilee, it is very edifying.

"Behold, I make ALL THINGS NEW" (Revelation 21:5)

In the winds of change; they will find the truth - jER

[jER]

Although this goes along with the "Finished?" thread, it fits here as well.

Romans 6:2-11

How shall we that are DEAD to SIN, live any longer therein? (Romans, vs. 2)

Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For, if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed (rendered inoperative), that henceforth, we should not serve (be slaves of) SIN.

For, he that is dead is freed [justified] from SIN.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him.

Knowing that Christ being raised from the DEAD, dies no more; death hath no more dominion over Him.


Death has no power over ANYONE who has died and IS RAISED from the DEAD [resurrected] unto a new creation.


For in that He died, He died unto SIN once [for all], but He lives unto God.

Likewise, consider yourselves to be DEAD indeed unto SIN, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans, vs. 11).

And you He has made alive, who were DEAD in TRESPASSES and SINS. (Ephesians 2:1)

He loved us, even when we were DEAD in SINS..." (Ephesians 2:5)

And you, being DEAD in your SINS...He has made alive together with Him. (Colossians 2:13)

"...that we being DEAD to SINS, should live unto righteousness..." (I Peter 2:24)

"They that are Christ's have crucified the flesh..." (Galatians 5:24)

The body is DEAD because of SIN; but "the Spirit is life" because of righteousness. (Romans 8:10)

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body [Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterwards that which is spiritual].
(I Corinthians 15:44, 46)

That which is born of the Flesh (body/soul) is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:3, 6)


Death, or the state of being dead as spoken of in ALL these Scriptures, seem to be speaking of a Spiritual Death, not Physical.

Is the "second death" for those who overcome in this present age, contrary, to the "Second Death" that is mentioned in Revelations for those at the White Throne Judgment?


The winds of change are not contrary, for all will come to the knowledge of the truth, and life in Christ.

-jER

[jER]

The righteous believers will be resurrected with glorified spiritual bodies, and the wicked unbelievers with physical bodies to face Judgment. It is in Judgment that the wicked will be ultimately saved.

There is a difference between the glorified spiritual body and an immortal (not subject to death again) physical body which is resurrected
to the judgment of the soul (person), in the "Lake of Fire."

"And, there shall be no more opposition [evil], only the throne of God and of the Lamb…" (Revelation 22:3).

I look forward to that day with great anticipation.

- jER

[Kat]

Hi jER,

I like what you are bring up in the scripture.  It's interesting what you can find.
Here are a few scripture I found that indicate when Christ returns He will be judging those in the physical flesh body.

Isa 66:15  For, behold, Jehovah will come with fire, and with His chariots like a tempest, to refresh His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16  For by fire and by His sword Jehovah will execute judgment with all flesh; and the slain of Jehovah will be many.

Eze 20:47  And say to the forest of the south, Hear the Word of Jehovah. So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall burn up every green tree in you, and every dry tree among you. The flaming flame shall not be put out, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned in it.
Eze 20:48  And all flesh shall see that I Jehovah have kindled it. It shall not be put out.

Jer 25:31  A noise shall come to the ends of the earth; for Jehovah has a controversy with the nations; He will enter into judgment with all flesh. He will give those who are wicked to the sword, says Jehovah.

So when Christ returns to judge the nations on earth, it says, "He will enter into judgment with all flesh."  Is this talking about just those still living at His return, or are these nations of 'all flesh,' including the dead?  notice verse 18 below.

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms[6] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Rev 11:17  saying:
       "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
       The One who is and who was and who is to come,
       Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
       And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
       And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
       And those who fear Your name, small and great,
       And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

It seems if you put together these scripture you begin to see that the nations are all people or 'all flesh' that have lived on earth, and they are back in their bodies of flesh?
Just some scripture I wanted to share on this subject 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[jER]

Hello Kat,

Thanks for sharing your input, and the Scriptures!

"He will not fail"  (11:59:59) and the clock is ticking.

-jER