> General Discussions
Is this judgeing?
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Alex
Just a few observations.
Babylon teaches that there are saved and born again members of the body of Christ BEFORE the resurrection to life in Christ or judgment at the White Throne. Hence the confusion. :)
For me there are no sons or daughters yet except one and that is Christ. For some there is the conception of His Spirit within and the race to finish the test of faith and trial of our fidelity to Christ.
You say : However, i noticed that those who have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are the sons and daughters of God.
We do not know who is and who isn't elected to sonship and daughter status yet. Only God knows His own. For us we have the Hope to be called sons and daughters but it is not yet that the sons and daughters have been made manifest.
You ask : How can those who are of there father the devil have the spirit of Christ in them?
How indeed. Only Christ can give us conversion by giving us the deposit of His Spirit that is not given in full to any. Non have yet reached the full standard height of Christ in this life time but at death perhaps there are a few who have been faithful to receive their crown of glory when after Christ returns.
You say : Also, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.
If by this you mean that the children of the devil are beloved for the Fathers sake then you are way off base I believe because scripture tells us that those who are of the devil are the children of rebellion who are reserved unto wrath and indignation of God and are hardly beloved in their rebellion, vile beastly unrepentant merciless condition of spiritual weakness.
Your questions that ask why God and not our sake is simply because there are non who are good but God. Why make anything for a lessor reason that the height and glory and perfection of God and His Son. Why have any problem with this?
You ask : How do we know who is of the devil?
Simple. Children of the devil are like their father who is a murderer and has no truth in him from the beginning. They are the children of disobedience, partakers of darkness, fornicators, covertness, fools talking foolishness, idolaters of their own understanding giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach, they are hypocrites, pretentious liars whose consciences are seared with a hot iron, they are filled with irreverent legends and silly myths and indulge in godless chatter with vain and empty worldly phrases subtleties and contradictions falsely calling this knowledge and spiritual illumination. They are those who gratify themselves and do not tolerated or endure sound and wholesome instruction. They have ears that itch to hear false erroneous teachings. They are those who have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and they are without understanding. These are the lovers of themselves not knowing God or His Power.
The world is full of them!
God is not a God of confusion. It is really quite simple really. Following in the foot path of Jesus...now that is the difficult part. :) You might want to take this to heart and go and take a look into what is taught under http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html How Hard is Getting Saved?
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
rocky:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on October 07, 2007, 02:51:30 AM ---Hell Rocky, thanks again for your reply.
I have nothing against the scriptures, and they are always true to me. Lord have mercy, i pray they are!
However, i noticed that those who have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are the sons and daughters of God. How can those who are of there father the devil have the spirit of Christ in them?
Also, they are beloved for the fathers' sake.
Does being beloved for the fathers sake = our brother and sisters? Why is the FATHERS SAKE? Why not OUR Sake or CHRIST SAKE? Why not, they are 'sons for the fathers sake?' Why the use of the word BELOVED?
I just don't know yet if i can say that simply because they are beloved for the fathers sake, that those jews that believe on him that Christ calls of the devil, are our brothers in Christ. Remmber these people BELIEVE ON CHRIST.
This is why this is not so black and white to me, these are not just athiest or agnostics, these are those that BELIEVE ON HIM! Is this not haveing FAITH IN CHRIST? Yet they are OF THE DEVIL! How can that be? Furthermore, hwo could they be brothers and sisters to us?
I certainly don't think this is creating a new denomination, there is already a unity of spirit that we must strive to maintain as paul contends. I am in no way advocating a new denomination here of any sort, God forbid, we belong to HIS BODY, HIS CHURCH! There is no need for ANY of that, however does that mean that we call those who are of the devil, our brothers and sisters? How do we know who is of the devil? Our brothers and sisters are those who do the commandments of God, can i even say that i do those? I break them all the time.. where do i fall in all this?
SO many questions.. so much confusion...
Thanks for the intersting discussion! I am learning though confusion and questions are part of that long process.
God bless,
Alex
I c
--- End quote ---
Hi Alex, I definitely agree that those "of the devil" are not our brothers and sisters. And yes they are beloved for the fathers sakes. My mistake if I implied that they were brothers and sisters.
Jesus clearly states who are my brothers and sisters, "those who do the will of the father"
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
The point I was trying to make, is that it is in one's Heart one believes, and via faith, that person has the spirit of God in them. And in my opinion, they are brothers/sisters even if immature. Just like Paul addressed in Corinthians.
Also, I don't believe one has to believe in a certain "additional" beliefs other than trusting in the death, burial and resurrection for the spirit to be in them. I do see, each person having to grow up a lot, and remain faithful to the end in order to be saved at the Day of the Lord.
At what point did you become a brother Alex?? When did your faith become not fake faith, but real faith?? when did the Holy Spirit move in??
For me, I again stress the "in your heart", it's a heart faith, not just lip service faith.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Here is something else to think about, Paul's ministry was to these churches (ie: Corinth). Why would he be in such anguish, prayer, write letters, and continue to seek them, encourage them in the faith, to grow up, and to stay faithful?? to me it's because they were brothers and sisters.
and in the gospels, Jesus tells his disciples to go from town to town, and if not received, shake the dust off and move on. These pharissees, were not brothers and sisters, were hardened for a purpose; and no use waisting time on them.
thanks again, you are a blessing and I appreciate your sincerity
DuluthGA:
I just got through reading this thread, really really good, and thanks to ALL who participated.
Rocky Rocky Rocky.... so many good points and verses that I align with.... I am with you in spirit. And this is not the first thread where I have appreciated your questions and viewpoints. ;):)
Thanks also Alex for your perspectives and thanks Pera for the good Godtube.
To me, yes there are vessels that were made for dishonor and children that were given to be of their father the devil..... isn't satan a good place to learn from?
1Cr 5: 5 to give up such a one to Satan for the extermination of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [CLNT]
Just one question, for CIY re:
--- Quote ---Well I have seen many religious people act good all of their life, but the love of God was not in them.
--- End quote ---
How do you know?
Thanks again ALL!
:)
Gregor:
Greetings with a holy :-*,
I just finished reading the audio transcript "Ray's talk on Repentance." It is packed with truth, not just on repentance, but on judging. I highly recommend that anyone who hasn't yet read that transcript do so. It really has given me a lot to digest.
This is not an easy or painless process for me, letting go of so much "sand" that I've built my life on. But, I believe it is worth it. Thanks to everyone here contributing to my edification.
Love and Prayers,
G.
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