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Ambiguous "Law"

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Gregor:
Greetings,

Please bear with me, as I'm not even sure where I'm going with this. But from the other threads I've learned that everyone's input has helped clarify things for me. Please feel free to reply.

I hear the word law used all over in the bible, but find that it is rather ambiguous. Sometimes it refers to the ten commandments. Sometimes it refers to the Laws of Moses, and sometimes it refers to the law of love. In Rom. 3:21 it also refers to the the "Law Giver." (But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets).  I'm not a scholar of biblical proportions by any means, but my understanding is that the Greek didn't use capitalization.? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Consider the following verses:

Rom.4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom.5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin was imputed to Adam long before the ten commandments, and long before the Laws of Moses. So I ask the question: Would God telling Adam (Gen 2:16,17) not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you shall eat of it you shall surely die, be considered the first law or principle of the law? Or just the first example of the law of the spirit? James 4:17 says "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." I see many "laws" in place, and I know the commandment "Love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself" sums up the Law and the Prophets.

I'm just fishing for some feedback. Any thoughts?
Thanks.
G.

sonofone:
Hey I am sure you already know this but here is what I see. A short definition of sin is to miss,or come short of the mark. The mark of course is set by God. In the case of Adam the mark was to not eat from the tree of good and evil,as we know he came short of this mark so he sinned. Now from the time of Adam to Moses there were no ten commandments yet sin was in the world,that is to say mans carnal nature which is in itself at odds with the will of God was alive and well. The law became the mirror that revealed man's sinful nature or the nature that is at odds with the will of God.You are also right as to the wording of the law it does refer to different things st different times.

YellowStone:
Hi Greg,

You pose some very interesting questions here. I will tackle the one that questions whether one is sinning if one knows not what sin is or for that matter that the action is wrong. I agree with James; one can only be held accountable if they know that their actions are wrong. It seems very interesting to me that men and woman all over the world, regardless of race, creed or religion are all held by the same common moral standards. For example, I cannot name any where in the world where the common man lives outside any of the ten commandments.

So what exactly is the law that you speak of? Is it the laws that are mentioned in the Bible, or are they the ingrained laws that seem to be etched clearly on the hearts of all mankind?

Yet, even the answer to this question cannot truthfully be answered by any here, simply because since the coming of Christ who soley fulfilled the law (made everything completly unified) and the giving of the Spirit, which I believe resides now in the hearts of all. Surely at anytime since these two historic events, man has been judged to a higher standard that at anytime before. However, the Spirit does not reveal the same truths to everyone, nor in the same quantity or at the same time.

Whoa be to any who willfully sin, knowing that the action is wrong in their hearts and conscious (which I have always thought was an audible voice of the Spirit) Far be it from me to throw any stones or point any fingers; because the moment I point a single finger, I have four pointing back at me, and justifiably so, whoa is me. :(

Kind of sobering don't you think?  I hope this is where you were headed with this thread and this answered your questions in some way. :)

Love to you in Christ,
Darren

Harryfeat:

--- Quote from: Gregor on September 29, 2007, 03:58:38 PM ---Greetings,

Please bear with me, as I'm not even sure where I'm going with this. But from the other threads I've learned that everyone's input has helped clarify things for me. Please feel free to reply.

I hear the word law used all over in the bible, but find that it is rather ambiguous. Sometimes it refers to the ten commandments. Sometimes it refers to the Laws of Moses, and sometimes it refers to the law of love. In Rom. 3:21 it also refers to the the "Law Giver." (But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets).  I'm not a scholar of biblical proportions by any means, but my understanding is that the Greek didn't use capitalization.? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Consider the following verses:

Rom.4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom.5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Sin was imputed to Adam long before the ten commandments, and long before the Laws of Moses. So I ask the question: Would God telling Adam (Gen 2:16,17) not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you shall eat of it you shall surely die, be considered the first law or principle of the law? Or just the first example of the law of the spirit? James 4:17 says "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." I see many "laws" in place, and I know the commandment "Love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself" sums up the Law and the Prophets.

I'm just fishing for some feedback. Any thoughts?
Thanks.
G.

--- End quote ---

Hello Gregor,

Not knowing what you are looking for I give you the following.

I believe that the commandment to Adam of Thou shalt not eat was the law.  After eating the fruit, Adam knew he was naked [had sinned].  Without the law we cannot recognize that we have sinned.

Rom 3:19 Now we are aware that, whatever the law is saying, it is speaking to those under the law, that every mouth may be barred, and the entire world may become subject to the just verdict of God,
Rom 3:20 because, by works of law, no flesh at all shall be justified in His sight, for through law is the recognition of sin."

I think we can safely say that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a similitude of the law. Of course, you could also say it is a symbol of  death as contrasted with the tree of life.


After Adam left the garden, there was no law since the single law didn't apply.  That's where James comes in but there is no imputation of sin since the Mosaic law didn't come about as yet.  However, how will those from Adam to Mosaic law be judged for their sins?

What do you make of these rather enigmatic verses?

1Pe 3:18 seeing that Christ also, for our sakes, once died concerning sins, the just for the sake of the unjust, that He may be leading us to God; being put to death, indeed, in flesh, yet vivified in spirit,
1Pe 3:19 in which, being gone to the spirits in jail also,
1Pe 3:20 He heralds to those once stubborn, when the patience of God awaited in the days of Noah while the ark was being constructed, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were brought safely through water,

Do you think Jesus covered the bases for His judgment?



Since I am not sure what you are looking for I hope this helps you decide on a direction.

be blessed
feat

Beloved:
Wow Darren that was a deep spirital metaphor

Far be it from me to throw any stones or point any fingers; because the moment I point a single finger, I have four pointing back at me, and justifiably so, whoa is me.    ;D   

I agree with you that mankind world wide was always aware of the basic concepts of law. I think however the observation of the law is always from a selfish prospective. i.e. You don't hurt someone because then someone can hurt you. The motivation is not the heart but the belly.

I see the law is any thing that is known by others that restrains your own will. In a way the law points out your selfishness. 

Look how quickly a child learns to say NO... and how they realish using this word once they learn it. Sometimes they get so enamoured with their power they will say no to something that they want.  :D

When only One law was given ....Adam and Eve looked to their own self for the answers.

Christ on the other hand as the perfect Adam...looked to the Father's will in every matter.

He experieinced all the same the tugs of the physical body (hunger thirst etc), but he was enabled by His spirit to always obey His Father Will  and therby He alone fulfilled the Laws "perfectly" not carnally.

In the spiritual the precepts commandments and laws all seem effortless because you understand the Father's Soverignty and there is no conflict.

The writer of Psalm 119 pleaded 176 times for spiritual wakening so he too could find this peace and contentment with the Law . This generation is blessed because Christ has now come in the flesh. Only through Christ can we be shown the Father's Will.


Beloved

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