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Forgive them father

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sonofone:
This scripture Luke 23 vs 34, came across my mind today and I wanted to share some of what spoke to me. Jesus asked God to forgive those who demanded his crucifixion.Wasn't this same Jesus not many chapters before this ripping the Pharisees a new one for killing the prophets?Matthew 23 vs 29-36.It would seem to me that this forgiveness that Jesus asked God for was all inclusive,that is to include the Pharisees and such.If this is true,as I suppose it is. Is it fair to say that Jesus was never really angry with them? I could be wrong here,but I'm starting to see this anger of the lord a little differently in light of this. It appears that Jesus was acknowledging the fact that they were just doing what they knew to do. Even Stephen when he was being martyred prayed the same prayer. Acts 7 vs 60. I've been doing some thinking all day today,and I keep getting that God has given to everyman a certain portion of his light,IE truth. It is the lords doing Matthew 13 vs 10-11Matthew 11 vs 25-26,There are still conflicting scriptures to deal with as well,but for now I'm looking at what has come to me today.God's sovereign will being carried out in this world.I just see God's plan for the elect. That seems to be God's only goal for this lifetime. It seems to me that God is only interested in raising up an elect group of people,just like a fisherman that selects the fish that he wants and discards the others. I know everyone here believes that God will save all,I am not even attempting to dig into that right now.It just appears to me that this lifetime is about the election,and everyone else is just a pawn of sorts to help bring the elect forth? Any thoughts?

rocky:
Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

and in thy seed (the elect) all families of the earth will be blessed.


blessed:

H1288
בּרך
bârak
baw-rak'
A primitive root; to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason): -  X abundantly, X altogether, X at all, blaspheme, bless, congratulate, curse, X greatly, X indeed, kneel (down), praise, salute, X still, thank.


every knee will bow, ......

rocky:
Something i've been thinking about in regards to "forgive them for they know not what they do"

this sounds like ignorance.  forgiven if ignorant.  but;

Heb 10:26  For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Gal 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


those referred to in the above scriptures, definitely are not ignorant. 

don't know if there is a connection but been thinking about that.


also, along the lines of Adam and Eve,

Eve was deceived (ignorant)

Adam was not deceived (enlightened, aware ???)

rocky:

--- Quote from: sonofone on October 05, 2007, 11:45:44 PM ---It would seem to me that this forgiveness that Jesus asked God for was all inclusive,that is to include the Pharisees and such.If this is true,as I suppose it is. Is it fair to say that Jesus was never really angry with them? I could be wrong here,but I'm starting to see this anger of the lord a little differently in light of this.
--- End quote ---

Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Gregor:
Greetings,
Very interesting topic, this thing called forgiveness. Here's a couple verses to consider in your ponderings:

Mat. 5:43-48
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
[44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
[45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
[46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
[47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Mat. 6:14,15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The pharasees believed, as do many christians, that only God can forgive sins (See Mark 2:7), yet we are commanded to forgive one another. Why? I believe that Mt. 16:19 gives a clue.

I don't know what more to say at the moment, but I do think this time/age is the testing of our faith.

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