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Author Topic: "Everything is permissible"—  (Read 3628 times)

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rvhill

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"Everything is permissible"—
« on: October 21, 2007, 08:23:27 PM »


1 Corinthians 6:12
[ Sexual Immorality ] "Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.


1 Corinthians 10:23
[ The Believer's Freedom ] "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

What do you think Paul is saying here? We can do what ever we want, and be saved in the next life, but we still will die in this life from our sins?
       

 from Carm I got this and answered it

Quote
Originally Posted by WildWilly 
Paul is not saying that everything without exception is permissible.

Paul is talking about what we would call "things indifferent." Things not condemned in the law of God.

Is it permissible to play poker? Yes! Is it beneficial or constructive? You have to answer that.

Is it permissible to spend 3-4 hours watching a football game? Yes! Is it beneficial or constructive? Is there a better use of your time?

Paul is not saying that murder or fornication are permissible but just not beneficial.

Bill
I don't think that is what Paul means. He clearly says "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. Paul is saying that everything without exception is permissible or forgivable. Paul is saying that the Law is dead for the believers. The question though is what does that mean.
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Beloved

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Re: "Everything is permissible"—
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 10:15:12 PM »

CARMS answer is as usual legalistist

This is a hyperbolic statement that Paul is making....
                      ::) poker playing .   pllleeease  ::)

He is addressing a sexual incident at Corinth   but Paul is simply saying "all things" are allowable/possible to do.. (we would say all things are do=able).if you live in the physical and are carnal,     but Paul does live this way anymore.

The next verse he uses the analogy of food...all foods are for the stomach and the stomach was made for food....But should everything edible go into the stomach ?    ::)

The law points to the sin .....the carnal nature will usually go against it unless greater force opposes.  When the carnal does choose to do right there may even be a carnal reason for doing that.

In the spiritual ...we should not do anything unless it glorifies GOD

(1Co 6:17 WNT)  But he who is in union with the Master is one with Him in spirit.

(1Co 6:18 WNT)  Flee from fornication. Any other sin that a human being commits lies outside the body; but he who commits fornication sins against his own body.

(1Co 6:19 WNT)  Or do you not know that your bodies are a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit who is within you--the Spirit whom you have from God?

(1Co 6:20 WNT)  And you are not your own, for you have been redeemed at infinite cost. Therefore glorify God in your bodies.


Beloved   

(It is funny that you used CARM... I was heavy into discernment before I came to BT and It was their hateful and vindictive attitudes toward mankind that actually drove me more and more to seek the truth.  Now I only feel sadness about their blindness
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 10:16:19 PM by Beloved »
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Matt

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Re: "Everything is permissible"—
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 11:22:20 PM »

"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.

It seems like this is meant for sexual immorality, but I think it goes much deeper.  This makes me think of how Ray teaches how all physical rituals are carnal and not spiritual.  For example, it is not a bad thing to observe the Lord’s Supper (it is permissible), just do not expect some supernatural manifestation in your life (not beneficial) because of it.   Nothing physical (even the law) can make us benefit spiritually (should master you).  Maybe it means we should not focus on the things that are permissible, but the things that are beneficial to “the body” and in turn honor God.

I know there are many other layers that I am missing.  I am looking forward to hearing them!   
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indianabob

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Re: "Everything is permissible"—
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2007, 01:40:49 AM »

Matt,

I think you have it right.

Paul had been a strict law keeper and now is sent to the gentiles for whom there is no physical Jewish law.  Paul, said that to convert some he would be all things to all people. To the law keepers he would appear as one, to temple worshipers he would appear as one.
The point I think is that even though he did not need to keep sabbath, he would honor it while in the company of those who still kept it in order hopefully to save them.

He could drink alcohol or not, but if some did not approve of drinking alcohol then he would refrain from using alcohol.  Yet in addition to this even though he could use alcohol in moderation he would not allow that use to control him or allow himself to ever become drunk, because the body is the temple of God's spirit.  The same could apply to gluttony or lust for property or coveting position.

I like to keep in mind that the Jews of the day had formulated all sorts of rules to demonstrate deserving a position in the community and many of the rules were means to bend the law in their favor, such as giving money to the temple and allowing ones parents to suffer need.

I don't believe that Paul was saying he could do whatever he wanted.

Bob
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Kat

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Re: "Everything is permissible"—
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 12:23:32 PM »


Hi rvhill,

I tend to think this "Everything is permissible for me" which Paul is talking about extends to everything physical.  As Paul had the Holy Spirit/Christ indwelling he could make such a statement.

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:2  But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Rom 8:10  And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

As with Paul if the Spirit is indwelling, you will be guided by the Spirit of Christ and not the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:16  I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:24  And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

You ask,

Quote
We can do what ever we want, and be saved in the next life, but we still will die in this life from our sins?

If the Spirit of Christ is indwelling you are not under the law, because His Spirit by grace will give power of your fleshly desires, sin will not have dominion over you.  Therefore "everything is permissible" because you are a slave to God, not to the flesh. 

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15  What then? Shall we sin because we are not under Law, but under grace? Let it not be!
Rom 6:22  But now, being made free from sin, and having become slaves to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I am not saying that a believer no longer sins, but they are given what is necessary for the growth and character development of the believer, not to comdemnation.

1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

I hope you get what I'm trying to say here, those with the Spirit indwelling will not partake in abominations of the flesh, you will have no desire for it and the Spirit will not allow it.  This is my understanding as I see this in the scripture.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Chris R

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Re: "Everything is permissible"—
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 10:25:13 AM »


All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.[1Cor 10:23]

Whats Paul talking about?

Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, [that] eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

 1Cr 10:26  For the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.


 1Cr 10:27  If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.


 1Cr 10:28  But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:


A thought to ponder, to some it is unclean to eat meats, to others it is not, To Paul, ALL things are lawful, but to others, all things were not. WHY>> Rom 14:14 tells us.

I KNOW [Paul] and am pursuaded  by the Lord Jesus Christ, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean. [Rom 14:14]


Chris R
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jER

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Re: "Everything is permissible"—
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2007, 01:48:10 AM »

but the fearful…unbelieving…abominable… murders…sexually immoral…sorcerers…idolaters…and all liars,
 shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
(Revelation 21:8 )

The "Second Death" is the dying to, or death of sin – for the fleshly mind is enmity against God!

"…but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

In His Grace…

-jER
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