Creflo's message today, a lie?

[Bradigans]

I tuned in today to Creflo mentioning something about Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith. He said the word Spirit shouldn't have been capitalized because it's talking about the human spirit. Really??? He used John 15:5 to validate (really disvalidate) his point. John 15:5 - I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. He said the branches are what produce the fruit. Read John 15:1-5 and tell me when can a branch produce fruit of it's own. Cut it off, and see how much fruit it produces. Correction Creflo, Galations 5:22 is talking about THE HOLY SPIRIT and not the human spirit. Read also Ephesians 5:9. Not judging, but this guy sounds like a mere charlatan. Another thing I notice, he charges for everything (tapes, video's etc). He's not the only one, I know. Jesus never charged anyone...

Matthew 10:8 - Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Romans 8:32 - He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

[musicman]

I don't believe that holy spirit should be capitalized ever.  I may be wrong, but I think the only reason it is ever capitalized is because they think that it is the third part of the trinity.  The holy spirit is like the breath of God.  Should breath ever be capitalized?  I'm pretty sure that what Creflo's Dollars refers to here as the human spirit is in fact of God.  This spirit is always holy and of God. 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Creflo's teaching that you bring forward for me is heresy begging approval and agreement that we are the Spirit of Christ. What blasphemy! Dangerous territory for all would be lovers of self who would enjoy being approved, esteemed, acknowledged and recognised as being Christ Himself.

1 Cor 2 : 11 For what person perceived, knows and understands what passes through a man's thoughts except the MAN'S OWN SPIRIT within him? Just so no one discerns comes to know and comprehend the thoughts of God except THE SPIRIT OF GOD. 12 Now we have not received the SPIRIT THAT BELONGS TO THE WORLD, but the Spirit Who is form God, given to us that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly bestowed on us BY GOD.

Caps used do not denote shouting or teaching or high handed preaching only what is emphasised to my mind and thoughts in this post.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Matt]

I think that it is o.k. to capitalize Spirit if only to show separation from all other spirits.  Also, I like Creflo!  He keeps me sharp and on my toes!!  If it were not for people like him, it would be more difficult to study.  It reminds me of when Ray teaches about how  you really do not know what good is until you have a knowledge of evil, etc...

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Matthew....just a friendly warning

I knew someone who became fixated to learning the nature and character of Satan. This turned her away from looking and following Christ. She was a Minister in the Church.

My late husband became fixated with hardening his heart against evil so he became a third Dan Black Belt in Karate and ended up dying because of a bullet. I am not saying Karate as a physical and mental discipline is evil. I am saying Satan and his teachings are.

I too was a fan of Creflo, Joyce Meyer, Paula White, T D Jakes etc etc....They are excellent entertainers but so are narcotics and such lead to the junk heap of carnality. I am glad I am out.

I am also very thankful that there is one teacher who is teaching the Truth and we only need ONE not many. Babylon has many cocktails of teachings that carry the same venom of error and heresies.

LOF 2 http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html quote:

THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE

Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans' works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man's supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that men's souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God's Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that God's "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that God's love will never fail (I Cor. 13:? Yes.

But do they teach that God's love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ's parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didn't want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God's Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.
Peace to you

Arcturus

[Matt]

I am sorry, I need to learn how to communicate better with my writing (This is why I should stick to my no sarcasm rule).  I only enjoy him and the like because I enjoy picking out the MANY LIES.  I find it easier right now to study this way, my brain is wired backwards I guess   I am no longer fooled!  I get excited when now, I am able to easily see all the false doctrines.  There was a time not too long ago when I was caught up in a whirlwind about the truth.  Now I study less with my brain, if you know what I mean!

[Bradigans]

Hello Matthew....just a friendly warning

I knew someone who became fixated to learning the nature and character of Satan. This turned her away from looking and following Christ. She was a Minister in the Church.

My late husband became fixated with hardening his heart against evil so he became a third Dan Black Belt in Karate and ended up dying because of a bullet. I am not saying Karate as a physical and mental discipline is evil. I am saying Satan and his teachings are.

I too was a fan of Creflo, Joyce Meyer, Paula White, T D Jakes etc etc....They are excellent entertainers but so are narcotics and such lead to the junk heap of carnality. I am glad I am out.

I am also very thankful that there is one teacher who is teaching the Truth and we only need ONE not many. Babylon has many cocktails of teachings that carry the same venom of error and heresies.

LOF 2 http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html quote:

THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE

Most all Christian theologians would claim to believe the first statement of Scriptural Truth that I present below, especially when I cite a Scripture verse with it, but they will then contradict and refuse to teach the second statement of Truth. Here are a few examples:

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans' works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man's supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that men's souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God's Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that God's "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that God's love will never fail (I Cor. 13:? Yes.

But do they teach that God's love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ's parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didn't want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

There seems to be no end to the Scriptural contradictions of Christian beliefs. But we can learn from their mistakes. It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in God's Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.
Peace to you

Arcturus

Amen... Galatians 5:9 - A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ohhhhhh! Now I understand better Mathew!

I have kept all my Bible College books because I may one day decide to write and refute them like Ray has done with Dr. James Kennedy and John Hagee  .

I am happy to know you are not in the carnality mode of deception and to be honest I can only stomach a few lines at a time from TBN when in the past I had the station on 24/7 

Thanks Bradigans. The Amplified version of the Scripture you brought forward is as follows : Gal 5 : 9 A little leaven, a slight inclination to error, or a few false teachers, leavens the whole lump, it perverts the whole conception of faith or misleads the whole church.

It is a good idea to steer clear of repeating or believing or agreeing with ANYTHING coming out of Babylon. Invariably it will be laced with spiritual Cynde. Just yesterday a member from the Church we were excommunicated from, visited and asked where he could go to Church. He expressed a deep need to have Church community and is currently not happy with the Church he is in.    We have been nursing him on the truths and teachings we have come to recognise and which have become integrated into our beliefs through BT and Ray's teachings. So where and when we have the opportunity to disagree with what a Babylonian thinks we should agree with, or when he seeks confirmation that we are in agreement with what he has been erroneously taught, we speak up.   

So far I have not found any who are yet able to fully take hold of more of the exciting truths revealed in BT because I find much rejection, suspicion and fear modes coming from  anyone who is  associated to Babylon and who doesn't want to let go of their Babylonian passport if you know what I mean.    Our aquantance  trusts more in Babylon, has a fear and distrust of my husband and I and unless God Himself drags him out, we can only watch, sympathise and feel for his pain, deception and idolatry that yet has to be repented and SEEN for starters. We know it is a supernatural work of God and not a sentimental work of our own carnality that will give him understanding. We'd like him to be AWAKE to the Truth. He is not.  That is part of our cross and suffering made bearable only by.....accepting God at His work on His perfect plan and His will for us all.

~We are scattered. It would be most enjoyable if we were not! God knows what He is doing though and being scattered is in Gods Plan for now.

We hold our peace knowing God is in charge, is Sovereign and all will repent and be saved. We too, will repent.

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Bradigans]

God bless you. We are indeed scattered. But we are also indeed the salt of the earth (Matthew 5:13).

ALWAYS IN HIS LOVE

[gmik]

Notice the date.  How did I miss this one???  Good discussion.

I am so amazed that no one that I know is remotely interested in the New and Improved "Me"

I printed out and gave a copy of Ray's Comfort in Death paper to a girlfriend.  I hate to keep bugging her about it, but she keeps putting me off.  She says she has read it but needs to re read it again before she talks w/ me...blah  blah....

I was at a friends house the other day and actualy got on Ray's site w/ her showed her around it, then showed her the Forum and randomly read some threads, and she seemed very excited etc etc...but again, then nothing!  I asked her if she wanted the status quo or seeking the truth??  she said...status quo, the other looks too hard!!!  I said "do you want me to put BT on your favorites list?"  Oh no, thats OK she said!!

Another friend is a Creflow $$$$ fan, and I showed her personally him on youtube yapping about money and his jet etc.  She was fairly upset by him.  And yet, a couple days ago she mentioned..."Oh, I was watching Creflo $$$$ yesterday...blah blah...".  I couldn't believe it.

We are a small bunch of unique strangers in a strange land.  This message is clearly not for everybody.  I am really seeing that.

Think of 31 people at Rays bountiful table!  I know many of us simply could not make it, but still.....

Oh Matt thanks for clarifying.