BACK TO SPIRITUAL BASICS

[hillsbororiver]

There are times when getting back to some basic truths are very necessary for me (maybe you too), what I am saying is that the cares of this world no matter what they may be can erode the faith and peace we have been given and what we all strive for as followers of Christ.

It can be personal or family problems, health issues, problems at work or even being employed at all, sometimes these "cares" are what we are presently dealing with and at other times these "cares" are things we have done in the past that we now despise and are totally ashamed of.

What an incredible thing it is when we can see all of this as God's purifying Fire and that it is the Hand of a Loving God directing the events in our lives to bring us to Him as Sons and Daughters, losing sight of this "Spiritual Basic" can produce carnal fruits such as impatience, anger, faithlessness and worse.

The following bit is from LOF Part 3 and rereading this just recently was a balm for my spirit;

BACK TO SPIRITUAL BASICS

God gives us a perfectly simple and understandable examples of HOW He deals with our sins and faults. In Hebrews 12:6 we read:

"For whom the LORD loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?"

Of course when we ask this question today, the answer is not so obvious as back when the writer of Hebrews asked it. Less and less children are chastened by their fathers today, and look at the disastrous results. But ideally a son should be chastened -- chastened, not BEATEN! Maybe I need to investigate this matter one day. Just maybe those who teach the hardest for an eternal hell of pain are those who were physically molested and beaten as children, rather than lovingly chastised. Continuing:

"Furthermore we have had fathers of our FLESH which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of SPIRITS, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His HOLINESS.

Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:9-11).

This is not difficult to understand. Our fathers in the FLESH have corrected us with rods, straps, belts, sticks, paddles, and the back of their hand. This was done for our teaching and correcting. And it worked, "... we gave them reverence ..." Now then, "... shall we not MUCH RATHER be in subjection unto the Father of SPIRITS ..."?

Our Heavenly Father is NOT FLESH, but is the Father of SPIRITS! God is SPIRIT. God is working with our SPIRITUAL life. God does not chasten and correct us believers in Christ Jesus with physical rods, straps, belts, sticks, paddles, and the back of His hand! So how is it that God our Father of spirits accomplishes on a spiritual level what our physical fathers tried to accomplish on a physical level? Verse 29 gives us the answer: "For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE !"

As trash is burned and precious metals are purified by the use of LITERAL and PHYSICAL fire, so God burns our spiritual trash and purifies those qualities of character worth saving by His SYMBOLIC and SPIRITUAL fire. Physical fire is inanimate and uncaring. God's spiritual fire is caring and loving.

There it is. There's the gospel; there's the purpose for human existence; there's the plan of God. God is forming man into the very image of Himself. This requires not only a knowledge of good and evil, but an experience of good and evil. God provides both. He is calling just a few select ones out of this world now, and He will call the remainder of the human race later.

Some sinners are called, given faith, brought to Christ, repent, receive God's spirit and are saved NOW. All the rest of the world's sinners will also be called, given faith, brought to Christ, repent, receive God's spirit and will be saved LATER. And God uses the same method to convert and save both groups of sinners. That's because God CHANGES NOT and God is NO RESPECTER of persons, and God WILLS to save all mankind, and God will performs ALL HIS WILL, PURPOSE, AND PLEASURE!!

All of the above verses regarding fire are used in a figurative and symbolic manner. Christ does not literally "baptize" (IMMERSE) His saints in REAL PHYSICAL FIRE. It would burn them all up, and there wouldn't be any saints or believers! Likewise we saw in Part I that the "lake of fire" is also symbolic and used in a metaphor to describe a SPIRITUAL TRUTH. Some more on this later.

And so we are assured that EVERYONE will be "revealed," "tried," "salted," and "baptized" "in FIRE." And these fiery trials as Peter calls them go on for a lifetime. If it were real, physical fire, all believers' lives would be short indeed. God is SPIRIT, and God is a CONSUMING FIRE. It is God's SPIRIT that is likened to fire. The spiritual teaching in this symbol is to recognize what real fire accomplishes and to then use that as an analogy as to what God DOES TO US (or more properly FOR US).

Fire does a number of things:

Fire CHANGES things. Fire brings about molecular changes in the materials that are burned. God's spiritual fire will make changes in our mind, heart, and spirit.

Fire PURGES. In times past if a building were diseased and rat-infested, they would purge away the filth by burning it down. We are to be purged from all our diseases of sin and carnality. Jesus Christ paid the penalty of sin for us, but now God wants to get at the root and core of what caused us to sin in the first place. We all need desperately to be CHANGED and PURGED.

Fire BURNS UP combustible materials that have no value in saving. God will burn out of all of us the straw, grass, and stubble, which represent evil and wrong doctrines, idols of the heart, and philosophies that exalt themselves against God.

Fire PURIFIES things of value which we do want to retain. The analogy is used in the Scriptures of purifying gold by fire to make it more beautiful and more valuable. Gold represents the highest doctrines of spiritual understanding such as the Love of God and the Sovereignty of God, and salvation of all.

No one teaches us more regarding the fiery trials of life than the apostle to the nations, Paul. Paul was "revealed, tried, salted, and baptized" in God's "CONSUMING FIRE," and yet never a single hair on his head was ever singed.

Read the entire article here:  http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html

(Judgement By Fire Must Begin At The House Of God)

His Peace to you,

Joe

[rjsurfs]

Joe,

I love that section of LOF.

When you speak of the "cares of the world"... these carnal desires or idols of the flesh... they can be so subtle... they can be presented in a pretty package... looking good on the outside but in reality "full of dead man's bones"...  I have to watch out for these constantly.  And when I come to despise one of these idols and move away from it, I am too often then discovering a new one. 

The process of chastening... I also like what Ray presents in Part 1 of the Lake of Fire:

We will also see from the Scriptures that God never punishes for the sole purpose of torturing. God always punishes and chastises for the ultimate purpose of correcting, righting, amending, changing, fixing, rectifying, redeeming and saving. That God can and will accomplish these things with every creature in heaven and earth is fully substantiated by hundreds of Scriptures in His Word.

This makes so much sense now.  Do we not have a perfect God who will save all of his children?  Do we not realize the greatness of our God when we begin to see these truths?  There would be no purpose in an endless torturous hell.  Ray even goes on in the section you referenced Joe to show us that through chastening our God is gracing us.  Great stuff.

How fire has been twisted by many to mean something evil... when we are told in Hebrews 12:29 that "For our God is a consuming fire".

We read in 1st Corinthians 3:12-15:  "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire".

We are not tortured by fire, but rather we are saved by it.  The Good News is actually good!

Bobby

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

Very good refresher on why we 'need' to endure chastening.  And I like what you said;

What an incredible thing it is when we can see all of this as God's purifying Fire and that it is the Hand of a Loving God directing the events in our lives to bring us to Him as Sons and Daughters,

These emails further speak on the judgments and trials we go through now.

http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#trial --------------------------

Not everything in the Bible is "easy" to understand. It takes God's spirit and it take wisdom. God supplies both.

God does send custom made trials to all of us. He does NOT, however, do the "trying" in these trials.

A trial is where evidence is presented to determine one's guilt or innocence. God is far above us carnal matters. God already knows IN ADVANCE what we will or will not do under our trials.

Therefore, He does not determine from the evidence whether we passed or failed the trial; whether we are guilt or innocent. The trial is for OUR benefit, not HIS!

Hope that helps you a little.

Sincerely,

Ray

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#temptation -----------------

Why would Jesus tell us to pray that God should NOT lead us into temptation [Gk: trial] when, in reality, we DO go through trials?

After all, Jesus was led of the spirit into the wilderness for the express purpose of being "tried."

Then James comes along and says

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, NEITHER TEMPTS HE ANY MANY." (James 1:13).

And if that is bad enough, James first tells us in James 1:2 to

"...COUNT IT ALL JOY WHEN YE FALL INTO DIVERS TEMPTATIONS"!

What is going on here?

Although this might sound like a triple contradiction, it is not.

First let's be abundantly clear that God, HIMSELF, does not ever do the actual "trying or tempting."

"And the SERPENT said unto Eve... And when the woman SAW that the tree was good for food,  and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES ['...the lust of the eyes ... is NOT OF the Father...' John 2:16], and a tree to be DESIRED to make one wise, she TOOK of the fruit thereof, and DID EAT... And the woman said, THE SERPENT BEGUILED [deceived] ME..." (Gen. 3:6 & 13).

"And lead us not into temptation but DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE [Satan]" (Matt. 6:13).

"...when YOU  FALL into divers [various] temptations [trials]..." (James 1:2).

"But every man is tempted, when he is DRAWN AWAY OF HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. THEN when lust has conceived, it brings forth SIN: and sin, when it is finished [full grown], brings DEATH" (James 1:14-15).

From all of these examples it is abundantly clear that it is not the OBJECT that is the TEMPTATION, but rather the temptation COMES FROM WITHIN, not from without. It was not the "tree" that MADE Eve lust. It is not the "pretty woman" that MAKES a man lust. The LUST IS IN THE MIND, IN THE HEART, and therefore, the trial IS IN THE HEART AND MIND, not in the literal flesh.

And so we pray that God should not lead us into temptation, but rather DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE [Satan] WHO DOES LEAD US INTO TEMPTATION.

But notice again, we pray that we should be "DELIVERED." We cannot be 'delivered' from something UNLESS WE ARE ALREADY IN IT! God intends that we get "IN IT"--trials and temptations, which are GOOD FOR US, AFTER we have gone through them.

The longer we live the Christian walk, the better we should get at this. Hence Paul tells us,

"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged" (I Cor. 11:31).

The MORE we 'judge ourselves' the LESS we are "lead into temptation." We learn to cut it off at the pass, as they say. It is by God's divine counsel that we are led into temptation (even if God never DIRECTLY tries or tempts us), and it is by God's divine counsel that He delivers us from the "evil one."

Hope that helps a little.

God be with you,

Ray

[LittleBear]

Thanks Joe for bringing that bit of teaching forward. It is a real comfort to know that God gives us a handpicked trial when you are in the midst of it. And that it is for a divine and glorious purpose of His. That knowledge is a soothing balm.

Ursula

[Chris R]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for posting the link,  When Adam and Eve had both eaten of the tree, it contained two things, Good and Evil....So in my reckoning If the fruit contained both, which would mean 50/50, then hopefully our lives represent both.

God gives us a perfectly simple and understandable examples of HOW He deals with our sins and faults

And God also gives us examples of how he blesses us.


Just a thought.

Peace

Chris R

[josh]

Joe,

Your post, as they usually are, is a very timely message for me personally. Thanks for taking the time to post, my friend.

God's Peace.
Josh

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

Thank you for posting this thread that encourages me in my trials.

These things stand out for me while reading this thread.

The cares of the world! I can relate to what you observe Bobby : these carnal desires or idols of the flesh... they can be so subtle...

I have personally been dealing with this very thing. When a person or circumstance challenges me, I am being stretched to see GOD'S purpose in my trial and to NOT SEE the person or circumstance as being the error, fault or opposition. Blame shifting is much easier carnally than seeing God's purpose, cause and plan to show up pride and prejudice of an evil heart!

And what you posted Kat quoting Ray fits. Quote : God is far above us carnal matters. God already knows IN ADVANCE what we will or will not do under our trials.

Therefore, He does not determine from the evidence whether we passed or failed the trial; whether we are guilt or innocent. The trial is for OUR benefit, not HIS!

So just to add to this Joe to as Josh observes, a most timely thread, and to carry this forward as to how Chris R says quote : God gives us a perfectly simple and understandable examples of HOW He deals with our sins and faultsfrom Ray LOF part 15 C

Here then is a proper translation of this most profound verse:
"It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it" (Concorant Old Testament).
Now we can easily understand what is being said in this verse.
This "experience of evil" is not the purpose or goal of human existence, but this is indeed the process by which God is bringing His Sons and Daughters into glory! Most translations have hidden the meaning of this verse of Scripture. The translations just couldn't believe that God would do such a thing. They see it all around them. They see it in thousands of Scriptures, but they just couldn't bring themselves to come right out and say it, as God obviously has stated in the original Hebrew of this verse.
"It is an EXPERIENCE of EVIL that God has given to the sons of humanity to HUMBLE them by it."
And to this agrees the rest of Scripture:
"For ALL his days are SORROWS, and his travail [experience] GRIEF..."  (Ecc. 2:23).
The destiny of the human race is indeed GLORIOUS, but the journey is filled with evil and sorrow. This not to say that there are not many beautiful and good things in life, but for most the misery far far outweighs the pleasurable
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html

Peace to you

Arcturus

[skydreamers]

How fire has been twisted by many to mean something evil... when we are told in Hebrews 12:29 that "For our God is a consuming fire".

We read in 1st Corinthians 3:12-15:  "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire".

We are not tortured by fire, but rather we are saved by it.  The Good News is actually good!

Bobby

Hi Bobby, yes fire is the more misrepresented spiritual symbol in all of the bible it seems.  Here's another scripture connected to God being our consuming fire:

Isaiah 30:33
For a burning place has long been prepared; indeed, for the king it is made ready, its pyre made deep and wide, with fire and wood in abundance; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, kindles it.


The breath of the Lord that brings death and life:

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.


Peace,
Diana

[hillsbororiver]

Hi everyone,

All of your responses are greatly appreciated, very good additions and insights!

What I found in my own personal experience is that when one gross sin seems to be in the rearview mirror another one, sometimes something that may have lied dormant for a while springs into action, recently I was contemplating this and came to realize that virtually every molecule in my being (mental and physical) is in need of healing, correction and adjustment from above, the physical/carnal Joe needs to be transformed into the spiritual Joe and this can only be accomplished by never taking one's eye off of the goal which is Christ. I have found that focusing on anything else blinds me to the spiritual and I bump into walls, stumble and fall.

The beautiful thing is that He is there to pick me up and dust me off, recalibrate my vision and to continue in this journey, to run this race while sharing His yoke.

I love how this portion of LOF Part 11 also speaks about His process in dealing with His people:

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

This is the reality of the "overcomer." Anyone going through very severe trials, problems, tribulation, judgment, chastening, and scourging is considered by the Church to be a gross sinner under a curse. Yet what does God's Word tell us:

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS, and SCOURGES every son whom He receives" (Heb. 12:6).

Do we think this Scripture lies? If God calls you to be a son, then He will SCOURGE you. There are absolutely no exceptions and there is absolutely no way around these Scriptures. I have heard professing Christians of 70 years confess that they never suffered persecution a day in their life. One remarked how lucky we are to live at this time and in this country where people no longer persecute Christians. Unbelievable.

"Yea, and all that will live godly [devoutly] in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution" (II Tim. 3:12).

These verses of Scripture do not conveniently go away or disappear just because we have already read them ten or twenty years ago. But you say, "I do live godly in Christ Jesus, but I am not persecuted." Oh really? Perhaps you have overlooked a thing or two. Do you love your enemies? Or do you love your army whom you applaud for killing your enemies? Do you turn the other cheek when someone does your wrong, or do you call your attorney and have him sued? Do you believe and teach that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world, or do you believe and teach that most of the world is going to hell? Do you no longer have a "lust of the flesh, and lust of the eyes, and a pride of life," or are these the very things that dominate most of your time? It is futile to profess Christ without living godly in Christ!

Yes indeed! Whenever I begin to have that insidious thought that I have "arrived" He shows me how far there is yet to go.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Matt]

Joe,
  Thank you for this reminder.  I have taken the time to go back the past few days and refresh on this and a few other teachings.  It is exciting to read them again and be able to add more to my understanding each time!  I am amazed at how much I have learned, but even more amazed at how much more there is to learn! 

Matt

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Matt,

I know exactly what you mean. 

It is necessary for me to be constantly reminded of this as well!

His Peace to you,

Joe