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We Can Only Experience

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Deborah-Leigh:
Amen Darren!

indianabob:
Joe, Kat, Darren, Arcturus and all,

You are all probably aware of this in your own experience.

I communicate with a lovely woman who thinks of herself as a non-believer and justifies her view by quoting Bible passages illustrating the "cruel and selfish" things that God does.  I am reasonably sure that she does not have the calling we have been given, but she is concerned about the welfare of friends and relatives "who are deceived into believing that the God of the Bible is love and is kind to His children".

She notes the world wide flood, the tribal wars and the punishments that God is responsible for and even commands in the Bible and especially the poor treatment of women throughout the Bible in the culture and customs that are illustrated in which women are treated as property by their fathers and their husbands.

My point is that it is difficult to even discuss the fact that God has a loving purpose in mind when she reads all that God is responsible for when He not only allows but even plans for humans, especially women and children to suffer in order to learn that evil is evil.

I have read all that has been written in this thread and agree, but I am noting that this understanding cannot even be shared with the world unless and until their minds are cleansed.  Maybe we are destined to be alone in our understanding until Messiah returns.  Maybe we should not be too concerned about sharing this information and drawing persecution down upon ourselves on a personal level, since it appears that most will not be able to accept it.

How can we be a light and an example and be 'always ready to give an answer' in a positive manner and still avoid unnecessary and counter-productive confrontations that bring persecutions upon ourselves and still yield no good fruit?  Are we then casting pearls of wisdom before 'swine' (the world) and finding that the "swine" don't want our/god's wisdom and don't even recognize our information as wisdom?

Maybe we try too hard to convince others of wisdom that we needed years of correction to accept and even then as a miracle from God.

Please comment and correct as needed.

Bob

Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Bob

I believe no one can lead anyone anywhere.Even if we have a flash light and shine it in blind eyes, those eyes will still not see.

Your post reminds me of what Ray teaches. Quote : All my life I heard of "winning souls for Jesus." It is taught throughout the whole world of Christendom. Christians are taught they must "witness for Jesus" and in so doing will "win" some souls for Jesus. Many Christians feel a definite need to try and reach people for Jesus before they die. The Christian teaching is that if anyone is not reached and persuaded to accept Jesus as his personal Saviour before he dies, then he will at death immediately go into the pagan Greek hell of hades and be tortured in fire for all eternity. Even after learning many of the Truths of God on bible-truths.com, people continue to ask me how they can fulfill their obligation to witness for Christ and become effective teachers of God’s Truths to their family, neighbors, or fellow parishioners.

Shocking as it might sound to most, the Scriptures know nothing of "winning souls for Jesus." It is a man-made doctrine of the carnal mind. http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

You ask : How can we be a light and an example and be 'always ready to give an answer' .....

I believe our preparation is in how we are going to answer to God not to man or in avoidance of men who are carnal and hate God.

Luke 21 : 36 Watch, keep awake then and watch at all times, be discreet, attentive, and ready, praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.

I like the praying advice in the above verse...praying for me means being in dialogue with God not man....praying praying ;D that is what we are doing here. Learing His Word and His Truths and building on that via fellowship with like minded brethren! Well this is how I see this anyway.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Deborah-Leigh:
Hello jER

Yes! Circumstances!

2 Cor 4 : 8 We are hedged in on every side, troubled and oppressed in every way, but no cramped or crushed; we suffer embarrassments and are perplexed and unable to find a way out, (of our circumstances?) but not driven to despair; 9. We are pursued, persecuted and hard driven, but not deserted, we are struck down to the ground, but never struck out and destroyed, 10 Always carrying about in the body the liability and exposure to the same putting to death that the Lord Jesus suffered, so that the resurrection life of Jesus also may be shown forth by and in our bodies.

Paul knew about circumstances!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

rjsurfs:
God is always on the side of circumstance... and always the cause behind circumstance.

From 12 God Given Truths To Understand His Word:

--- Quote ---No man does seek God except and until God brings about circumstances wherein he does seek God. But He only does seek God because "All is of God" who brings about the circumstances whereby someone who would not seek God, now does seek God.
--- End quote ---

From The Myth of Freewill Part A

--- Quote ---In every case Scripture shows that it is God Who is behind the scene of all circumstances that influence and cause a man to make the one and only choice possible under any given circumstance. This law of "cause and effect" is stated and demonstrated time and again in Scripture. Ignorance of these behind the scenes causes does not disprove the fact that they are the actual and literal cause of our choices.
--- End quote ---

"Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor, which appears for a little time, and then vanishes away. For that ye ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that" (James 4:13-15).

More from The Myth of Freewill Part A

--- Quote ---What did the Holy Spirit of God inspire (cause?) James to explain as a major factor in what determines the true outcome of man’s will? Answer: "Whereas you know not what shall be on the morrow."

God changes the minds and wills of mankind around the world, a billion times a minute, through circumstances that "you know not" are actually the cause of your choices and your changed choices. We are often if not most of the time completely unaware of what actually caused us to do or say or think as we do.

How did all the disciples will to remain loyal to Jesus no matter what, at one moment in time, and in the next moment in time, they all changed their will to forsake Him? What changed their wills? Circumstances. One moment they were at ease and safe in the upper room, and at a later moment they were in the garden surrounded by Roman Soldiers! Fear was the circumstance that caused their (un-free) wills to change.

So it was the presence of certain circumstances that caused the disciples to will as they did. But what caused the circumstances to be as they were to ensure that they would will appropriately to fulfill Christ’s prophecy concerning their denying and forsaking Him?

GOD’S WILL: Notice the second thing that the Holy Spirit inspired James to write regarding what will or will not happen on any given day to any given person. "…if the Lord will…"

Who was in charge of all these circumstances, which caused the disciples to change their wills? Why God, of course. They did not want to change their wills. They did not desire to deny their Lord and Saviour. They did not wish to make liars and fools of themselves. They did not want to be shown that they were all cowards. Well then, why did they change their wills if they did not wish to change their wills? Were they free to not change their wills? No, they were not free.

The fear inside of them caused and made (and yes, FORCED, if you will) them to change their will. And Jesus Himself told them that they would change their wills, so how pray tell could it have been otherwise? Yet I suppose that some are so spiritually stubborn that they will still insist that the apostles did not need to change their wills, that their wills were yet free to stay loyal in the face of these fearful circumstances.

When we argue with God like this, we demean Him. God has a plan, and God brings about His plan. God is not stupid. God knows exactly how to cause man (all mankind) to do exactly as He plans for them to do.


--- End quote ---

Bobby

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