saved through what?!

[lilitalienboi16]

Diana, that was a wonderful post! It was a blessing!

Love to you,

Alex

[gmik]

Yes, Diana, well put.

[ez2u]

Now you all understand what I was saying earlier.  Thank you Diane for sharing this beautiful truth again    peggy

[Chris R]

Ray Replies to this question,


Certainly women are able to declare God's Truth, as you state. It is also true that those baptized into Christ are, "...neither male nor female...IN CHRIST."  (Gal. 2:27-28).  But we are also still IN THE FLESH, and in the flesh, we are indeed male and female.  If the statement that IN Christ there is no "difference" between male and female, then homosexuality would be perfectly fine.  Can you not see the problem here with thinking like that?

When Paul instructed the early Church that women were to keep silent in the Church, it was not just a "Jewish custom and tradition." Here is another declaration from Paul concerning men and women still in the flesh: "But I would have you know, that the Head of every man is Christ, and the HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN; and the Head of Christ is God"  (I Cor. 11:3).  This statement is not "custom and tradition.

When Paul says: "Let your women keep silence in the churches...." (I Cor. 14:34) it is not custom or tradition, but rather "...the things I write unto you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD" (Verse 37).

Also understand that women are not some inferior species that will be absorbed into the male species. Yes, both are called "the sons [some times children[ of God," but this is often used as is "Adam"  and "man" in the Genesis when really referring to "humanity" in the Hebrew.

When God "receives us unto Himself," are we all "males?"  "Masculine?"
Notice what the Scripture tells us:  "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons AND DAUGHTERS, says the Lord Almighty"  (II Cor. 6:18).

Anyway, I'll write a paper on this subject one day, but not today.
God be with you,
Ray

But for the reasons of authority mentioned above and other reasons too numerous to cover in an email, God has ordained that women are not to be the teachers in formal meetings of the congregations.

[LittleBear]

Why are women then teaching on this forum?  Especially here on General Discussions, which would be the forum's formal meeting.

Ladies! We need to keep silence. (oops...I think I just taught then)

[lilitalienboi16]

Why are women then teaching on this forum?  Especially here on General Discussions, which would be the forum's formal meeting.

Ladies! We need to keep silence. (oops...I think I just taught then)

I would contend dear sister, that indeed what ray has said is true as well as what diana has spoken.

I think i would have to add that while we are still in the flesh, here on this forum, we are indeed connected through the spirit of His Son. So perhaps, we are not in the flesh here, but in spirit together as we should always be =]

Just maybe?

God bless,

Alex

[fe32k]

Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and ask these annoying tid bits about the word that I just cannot put to rest (I'd ask Paul though, cause Jesus would probably tell me a parable  ).

When I was still attending church I had a female pastor and I asked her about this. The best she could do was say it was intended for those times only. These of course are much better answers and make sense. Rays answer, however is what I expected and the answer that my wife hates. Not sure how to go from here, but hopefully God will be guiding me to tell her His intended truth. Although the original question was on childbearing, I think Joe gave a pretty good answer to that at first.

I guess this also begs the questions, what constitutes as teaching? I don't think this forum is a place where people come to teach. Those are not my intentions at least. So in a way, we have all been keeping silent, because how many here have even ever taught something that is outside of what Ray has already stated? Not many I presume but I could be wrong.

GBWYA,
Roy

[Deborah-Leigh]

Some points to consider on this subject.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2206.0.html

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2144.0.html

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,969.0.html

Try to be the hero and leave that to the man to me is wisdom.   It requires more strenght to submit than to disobey but who wants to know that?

Peace to you

Arcturus

[fe32k]

Thanks Arcturus,
That second email strengthens my point about this forum not being a medium for teaching.

Roy

[rjsurfs]

From the forum rules:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3.0.html

If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.

Ray is the only teacher and since he doesn't visit the forum I would say we are teacher free.

The rest of the forum rules explain our purpose quite well.

[UncleBeau]

Can anyone shed some light on this:

1Ti 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

I know Ray is busy with the conference, so I figured I shouldn't bother him with it. But what does this mean? I have looked at different translations and have nothing. How can childbearing save a woman? Thanks in advance.

GBWY,
Roy

I'm sorry, but people seem to stray away from what was asked, apparently. Let's show you some scripture that I think might get you to make a connection. I'm also going to re post the scripture you referred to:

1 Timothy 2:15
   15) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Revelation 12:1-2   
1)And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2)And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Matthew 24:7-8 (English Standard Version)
7)For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 )All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

John 3:2-7
2)The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3)Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4)Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5)Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6)That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7)Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Galatians 4:27   
27)For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Revelation 18:4
4)And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Genesis 3:16
  16)Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


Hope this helps.

your friend,

-Beau

[sonofone]

There is a historical context,or backdrop that surrounds this particular verse.Ist Timothy 1vs 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia,stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines,any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.These provoke controversy rather than God's work which is by faith.

I want to tread lightly here as not to appear to teach anything,just trying to answer the question.Gnosticism was a heresy that was creeping it's way into the church.They taught that full salvation came through special knowledge.The main religion in Ephesus was a Female led cult of Artemis.

There were some that taught Eve was regarded as both mediator and redemptive figure.They taught that she predated Adam,and that man came into existence by and through the woman.Since Eve bit from the tree first,that she was the bearer of special knowledge.They further taught that redemption reversed the effects of there disobedience that God instituted in Genesis.

Some even preferred the leadership of woman over men based on these teachings.Paul readdresses,just what took place in the garden,making it clear that Adam was first formed then Eve.That Eve was deceived but as God had promised in the book of Genesis that her seed would bruise the head of the serpent.

So Eve was,and would be saved through the birthing of Jesus,but not by the birthing alone,rather that she continue in faith,and love and holiness with sobriety.

I tried to get to the point as fast as possible and would be happy to discuss further through pm, if it is a more appropriate means of discussing this verse further.

[Kat]

Hi sonofone,

That was interesting and it made sense. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[ez2u]

  We are still mulling over this subject.  What good is it doing?  We all have our own opinion and in this country, with the back ground of our forefathers and mothers sacrificing and fighting hard for the right to have and speak that opinion we seem to hold this dear to us.  When each of us leave our computers and join our spouses what happens then?  As a fellow believer I would like to think we each respect our love ones and do the very best we can, with the love of God motivating our actions.  Life gets hard decisions can be hard having another to talk with and share all the ups and downs is a blessing.  Since I have been a small child old people have fascinated me.  I love to talk with them and hear their stories.  I love to watch them and as I have observe old couples one of the beauties I 've seen is the flow between them, almost without words, in dealing with life's problems.  I pray that all the couples represented here will be bless in their old ages with a gentle flowing relationship work out from respect and God's love.  Peggy

[pylady]

Roy,  Thank you for bringing this verse forward.  I don't know about anyone else but the verses about a woman's role have always been  somewhat of a mystery to me  , one I didn't want to look at too closely!  But this thread and others I've read recently have  very much helped my understanding.  Personally, I'd like to thank all of you for your excellent comments and verses cited.  And Sonofone, your explaination of the historical context really brought Paul's meaning into focus.  Thank you.

your sister in Christ,
                 Cindy 

[fe32k]

Sonofone,

I will research this. Sounds very interesting. I have never heard of this sect of Christianity existing in the early church. They must have been making quite an impression if Paul decided to address their heresy. Thanks again bro, I will PM you if I find something interesting in my research.

GBWY,
Roy

[DuluthGA]

Hi Arcturus, Re:

Try to be the hero and leave that to the man to me is wisdom.

I thought you would like this verse:

1Cor 1:30   Yet you, of Him, are in Christ Jesus, Who became to us wisdom from God, besides righteousness and holiness and deliverance,

[Deborah-Leigh]

Yes Janice. Thank you.

Our source of spiritual strength is Jesus Christ.  He is Wisdom among many other Divine and Glorious characteristics that are Godly.

Peace be to you

Arcturus