A little baffled...

[fe32k]

Hey Bros & Sis's,
     I have a nagging issue that I just have not been able to shake off for years. In order to get a clear answer I have to give a short background, so please bare with me.

     My wife and I attended a small pentecostal church in Harlem, NYC about 2 years ago. I was very involved and a "high prospect" and many "prophesied" that I would be the next pastor. unbelievable. Anyway, it was a Hispanic church and was extremely charismatic. It is a common trait of Hispanic Pentecostal churches. So we would frequently have the speaking in tongues, screaming, and yelling, and waving hands and the falling backwards, etc. Even as a youth minister in the church, I was NEVER charismatic and was very skeptical of the falling backwards and shaking and speaking in tongues. My wife was even more skeptical than me. I guess you can all see where this is going. Well one day we went to visit another church. Things began to get a bit loud and rowdy in there as people were "receiving the Spirit" and shaking and speaking in tongues. I, as always, I sit down in dissapproval of this whole thing only to peak to my left and to my surprise, my very skeptical wife, is shaking uncontrollably while speaking in tongues and finally falling to the ground with a big thump! She was about 4 months pregnant at the time, so my initial concern was the baby (the baby was fine). She had to get picked up and carried back to her chair. She must have been exhausted after all that seizure type shaking. I couldn't believe or explain what had just happened. Finally after all this was able to sink in, I got the guts to ask her "What the heck was that?!!" She does not remember exactly what happened, but she did confirm it as a legitimated experience and she felt it was of God at the time. But as always with these things, she was the same exact person afterwards. No super spiritual revelation, no difference in attitude, no difference in character. Nothing. Was this an act of the Devil? Or was it a an act of God? Is this scriptural. I know Ray does not think so, but I used to believe this was all just acting. Now I know that at least it is a real experience since I know my wife is being very sincere, I just do not know what the source of it is.

We no longer attend any babylonic institutions and we both felt that it was the right decision. Although, neither of us were ever able to explain what happened that day. Has anyone here had a similar experience? and can anyone lend some insight on what happened? I am still a little baffled. Any and all comments are welcomed.

God's grace and love be with you all,
Fe

[sonofone]

I am so curious to know what kept you and your wife in a church for two years that neither of you felt in sync with? Also did your wife never speak in tongues again? Was she sitting in church one minute and then bam the next out cold speaking in tongues,only to get up and not no what just happened ,or why?

As for speaking in tongues I believe Ray teaches that this manifestation was an earthly language miraculously given to some believers during and for some period of time after the day of Pentecost.He further shows that there is no such word as unknown tongue,which is commonly used and practiced in charismatic churches.

This type of tongue is not a language gift as was described in the scriptures.As for your wifes experience I suppose she will have to square what transpired to her against scripture,and that is as much as I would feel comfortable saying about that,as I am not God,and would not want to speak on this beyond what I have just said.

[rjsurfs]

Hi Fe,

Ray has an entire paper dedicated to this subject:
http://bible-truths.com/tongues.htm

I suspect you may have already read it though from your quote:

...Is this scriptural. I know Ray does not think so, ...

The paper is short and here is a teaser from the opening:

Million of Pentecostals and Charismatics (not to mention other Protestant and Catholic tongues speakers) claim to possess a gift from God, which enables them to "speak in unknown tongues." What is the Scriptural truth regarding this popular Christian doctrine which is claimed to be a primary proof that one either does or does not posses God's Holy Spirit?

That there are millions of such sincere people desirous of worshiping God in truth as they understand it, I have no doubt. However, the truth will always set us free, so shouldn't we desire the truth at all cost? Is it possible that what appears to many on the surface to be a marvelous blessing from God, is in reality nothing more than a physical display of the carnal flesh? It behooves all tongues-speakers to read this paper carefully and prayerfully, with an open mind and an open Bible. If modern tongue-talking is not of God, then those who do it are not free, but in bondage, and as such will never be free or grow in God's Truth.

This is a great study that covers this subject entirely.

Bobby

[Dennis Vogel]

Mass hypnosis is real and happens.

[UncleBeau]

I agree with Dennis, ha ha. You know, you have to at LEAST ask some questions. Like, WHY would God make anyone shake "uncontrollably"? Does he not inspire(make) us to do and will of His pleasure? Does His pleasure not have a purpose? What redeeming value is there for a pregnant woman flopping on the floor? How does that edify the Body of Christ? Also, after you learn the truth about it (read Ray's paper on it), and if God wouldn't do something so foolish, then what would? Who is it in the scriptures that sets his throne up in the church and deceives the whole world? Anyway, glad the baby's okay.

your friend,

-Beau

[Kat]

Hi fe32k,

I found a few emails that I think will help with your question.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2974.0.html ------

Dear Linda:

    Everyone knows and it has been custom since the beginning of the world, that one bows and faces the King. Falling over backward in the presence of the King would be the height of insult and disrespect!  No one but Satan would come up with such a shamefull exhibition of the carnal flesh. THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURES in this shameful insult of modern ministers. God has nowhere ordained any such wierd and bizarre nonsense.

    God be with you,
    Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3253.0.html -----

Dear Lisa:
The answer to your question on languages/tongues is found in I Cor. 14:22--"Wherefore languages/tongues are for a sign, NOT to them that believe, but to them THAT BELIEVE NOT...."
There is your answer. The Church uses "speaking in tongues" as a SIGN UNTO THEMSELVES, at their own meetings where they are not in the company of strangers who do not believe, for the most part. Now then, Lisa, if as you suggest these languages/tongues were something other than REAL LANGUAGES used by real people on this earth, then how, pray tell, could the be a "SIGN" to the to those who "believe not?"  Would they believe that some "mumbo jumbo" tongue was a miracle from God?  NO!  But if someone not knowing any foreign languages could speak to those of a foreign language IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE, then it would serve as a "SIGN" from God. But none of the congregation would benefit from it unless there was someone TO INTERPRET for their "edification, exhortation, and comfort" (Ver. 3).

God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1278.0.html ------

Oh Latrice, wild horses couldn't keep me from responding.  You say that you spoke in languages that not even you could recognize.  I'll bet you did, too.  And there is a spiritual source for such gibberish. I try to stay clear of such spirits.  Maybe it's just me, Latrice, but I thought that I detected maybe just the slightest little "haughty spirit" in your email. Hopefully you will have only a "small fall." And thank you for all that encouragment about being deceived and going to hell and all.

Sincerely, (partially)
Ray

[fe32k]

Hi Kat,
From that last email that you quoted from Ray, it seems I should tell my wife she was possessed or influenced by an evil spirit. This only happened once, and it was really the begginning of the end for me and my relationship with Babylon, so maybe it was a good thing. My wife was not just sitting there and then suddenly fell into a trance and began to shake. She was praising God! She was saying the words Glory to God, over and over again and then it happened. That this may have been an influence from an evil spirit has been my only logical explanation for her, but it is hard for one to admit to such things especially when praising God. Unfortunately my wife is not as interested in the word of God since we left church and telling her that her experience was not of God did not help. It makes me wonder if maybe I made a rash decision and should have maybe made it a more gradual separation. To me this stuff is just wierd. I guess it will all make sense in the end.

Roy

[hillsbororiver]

My wife was not just sitting there and then suddenly fell into a trance and began to shake. She was praising God! She was saying the words Glory to God, over and over again and then it happened.

Hi Roy the following came to mind when I read your post;

Mat 6:7  But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[fe32k]

haha thanks Joe,
Very true. Clearly God is not a prayer machine. Thanks for the reminder.

God be with you,
Roy

[Deborah-Leigh]

God in His Infinite Wisdom knew exactly which button to press to drag both you and your wife out of Babylon!  Not a moment too soon or too fast either.     Exactly in His Timing not yours!

That's all you need to understand I believe and now you know what to study. Bible Truths and sensible, Godly, founded on the Word of God Ray Smith teachings! What a blessing. God knew how to get your attention and get you out of Babylon!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Robin]

I had a very frightening experience at Chuck Smith's church one night. I used to go to the charismatic Wednesday night meeting. I was raising my hands and singing in worship and something started breathing around my arms. I could feel the actual physical presence. It scared me so bad I interrupted the service for help.

It was that experience that later showed me the spirit in the Church was not God's spirit. I also questioned the good, emotional presence I felt at times when singing.

I found that worship became something different for me.

John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 15:10
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

1 John 3:24
Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 5:2-4
2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

1 Peter 1:22
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

[fe32k]

Thanks Arcturus,
I am not inclined at all to return either! This experience we had just makes me think sometimes. It wont make or break my faith, but I thought it was something worth bringing up to see if it is an experience I share with anyone on here or maybe come to a scriptural conclusion as to exactly what happened. It has never reoccured again, gladly. My major concern is for my wife to grasp these things I am learning as well and have a new sincere desire for the word of God, which I believe she has lost. All in God's time.

GBWY,
Roy

[ciy]

Just like the bible where the "sum of the word is true", so it is with Ray's studies.  Take the sum of Ray's studies (in this case especially "The Synagogue of Satan - There is One Near You").  Remember that God does not dwell in houses made by hand: he is a completely sovereign God down to the minutest detail: he does not punish anyone in hell for an eternity.  All that said, when one is worshipping and calling out to a god that preaches "This is God's house", "Free Will" and "The 11 Second prayer that Saves You from Hell", they are not calling out to the God of the bible.  They are probably calling out to and being answered by the God of this world.

Meditate on the Word.  Meditate on the fact that God creates good and evil.  Meditate on the complete sovereignty of God.  Meditate on Christ in you in the hope of glory.
CIY

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello MG

Thank you for sharing that. It brought to mind this quote from Ray : But can you imagine God saying - 'you know (calling anybody by name) you really were obedient to Me, you always did what was right, no matter how hard it was, you did what you knew was right and that is commendable.  However you didn't wave your hands, you didn't fall over backwards and foam at the mouth, I'm so upset with you.' (chuckle) 
It's just nonsense, that He would say, 'yes you always obeyed Me, even in hard times, you did the right thing.  You did right by Me, you did right by other people, you were obedient, but you didn't wave your hands.' 

Can you see what is important in worship?  Forget about the waving hands.  If you got to do it, well then do it.  But you know the big thing is OBEDIENCE http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5312.0.html

Roy

I am so glad you have no inclination to return to Egypt Pianistic Harlot Babylon prostituted religious holier than thou spirits of deception! As for you wife, she is your wife and God does honour your marriage so trust that. She will not be discarded and maybe her slowness to come to the revelations you have, is your testing ground to trust in Christ and know Him better? Just something to think about. I know it is difficult for most couples who have spouses who do not share what we have here with the same empathy and enthusiasm can feel a little isolated and frustrated. Part of the cross we have to obediently without murmuring carry I think.

CIY

We all begin in blindness and then we are dragged out of it some into the LOF to burn off the idols and others in a daily judgment. What is of some comfort to me is that we know not who is who while we live. It could be that the very ones we feel frustrated by because of their lack of connection with the Truth, may in their HEARTS be carrying a bigger load of the cross and may be the very ones who enter the Kingdom before we do! It calls to mind the Parasee and the man who was beating his chest begging for mercy who Jesus said would be justified before the Parasee. It is a humbling thought to think those we see as less educated to the Word than us, might well be Gods chosen ones He is invisibly dragging closer to HIMSELF. Just a thought! I agree with you and share with you disgust for Babylon and Her Harlot ways and I share the desire to be separated from her plagues of deceit and deception.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[sonofone]

[qu
CIY

We all begin in blindness and then we are dragged out of it some into the LOF to burn off the idols and others in a daily judgment. What is of some comfort to me is that we know not who is who while we live. It could be that the very ones we feel frustrated by because of their lack of connection with the Truth, may in their HEARTS be carrying a bigger load of the cross and may be the very ones who enter the Kingdom before we do! It calls to mind the Parasee and the man who was beating his chest begging for mercy who Jesus said would be justified before the Parasee. It is a humbling thought to think those we see as less educated to the Word than us, might well be Gods chosen ones He is invisibly dragging closer to HIMSELF. Just a thought! I agree with you and share with you disgust for Babylon and Her Harlot ways and I share the desire to be separated from her plagues of deceit and deception.

Thanks fore sharing this response.It to me is a truth that must be held onto as we continue this journey we are on.
Peace to you
Steve

[Chris R]

Hi all,

This scripture came to mind while reading this thread.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luk 6:45-46

If then we are told Not to speak in languages unless it could be understood by those hearing, then why do would we do it?..Because we DO NOT the things I say!

"and when you pray thou shalt not pray like the hypocrites" [Mat 6:5]
Then why would we do it?..Because we Do Not the things i say!

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: [Mat 6:1]
Then why do would we do it?..Because we Do Not the things I say!

And if we do these things...Why do we call him Lord Lord?

Years ago, My father went to see a prominent televangelist, He had watched this guy on T.V for quite awhile, and when a crusade came near, He and my Mother went.

The next day, I asked Him..how was it, he looked rather sad, I asked him, what happened? He looked at me and said, it's all a show, theatre, It was a circus side show, meant to bring cheers and theatrics to the TV cameras.

He never watched the guy again. anyway, this is my experience with tongues, and how easily my Dad seen right through it, when it was live, and not on TV.

Peace

Chris R