God is creating (present) man in His image?

[nightmare sasuke]

ertsky,

it seems pretty straight forward to me Lightseeker

That's the very point that I was making earlier.  Things that the church taught seemed 'pretty straight foreward to me'...years ago...and now, I no longer believe them.  Take the following verse which you quoted.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Because man capitalized the S I used to believe that The Holy Spirit dwelled within me too.  Now I don't.  I believe my spirit became holy upon the new birth.  The only body that I see The Holy Spirit in, is the 'many membered' 'singular body' of Christ Rom 12:5, 1Cor 12:12, Eph 2:19-22, .  But that should be another thread.   :shock:

Lightseeker that sort of statement doesn't fit at all into my understanding of faithfulness to the doctrine of Christ

You should reread your 1John and Titus quotes in context.  I think you'll find that fellowship isn't based upon your/my doctrinal talk...it's based upon our walk...in obedience to the commandments.  That's in both of your quotes...start at verse 1 and read them again.  You're making 'fellowship requirements' which are based upon agreement, which simply makes a 'dead letter' of the law of doctrine IMO.  Personally, I'd rather talk it wrong and walk it right than talk it right and walk it wrong.  On the day of judgment we'll all be judged for every deed ... not every doctrine.  

TIT 3:10  A man that is an heretick/0141 after the first and second admonition reject;  

0141 hairetikos: a schismatic

Know what a schismatic is f? According to scripture it isn't someone who believes in heresy...it's someone who divides the church over differences of opinion.  One saying I'm of Paul, Appolos, Cephas.

1CO 11:18  For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19  For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Approval from God doesn't come from 'talking' in oneness but 'walking' in oneness.  All the above is just my opinion of course.  

As far as the 'doctrine of Christ' in your Titus verse...at least we're back to the topic of the thread and the fact that multiple baptisms are part of the two verses speaking of that doctrine.  

HEB 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2  Of the doctrine of baptisms,

So what, in your opinion, are those multiple baptisms which don't fit Eph 4:5  :?:

Sorry this was so long.

We should start a separate thread to debate the subject.

[Lightseeker]

NS,

I edited out my comments at the end about baptism.  I forgot which thread I was on.  :?

If you're talking  about my Sspirit comment, I having second thoughts.  I don't want to be doing something against protocol.  This site is supposed to be about stuff that's been taught here.  So far I think I've tried not to argue against anything.  I do feel like I've questioned things based on my own personal 'right or wrong' understanding of scripture though. I've enjoyed myself here and don't want a problem.

What do you think, you've been here longer than me.  If you feel comfortable starting something I'll weigh in.

[nightmare sasuke]

NS,

I edited out my comments at the end about baptism.  I forgot which thread I was on.  :?

If you're talking  about my Sspirit comment, I having second thoughts.  I don't want to be doing something against protocol.  This site is supposed to be about stuff that's been taught here.  So far I think I've tried not to argue against anything.  I do feel like I've questioned things based on my own personal 'right or wrong' understanding of scripture though. I've enjoyed myself here and don't want a problem.

What do you think, you've been here longer than me.  If you feel comfortable starting something I'll weigh in.

I, myself, do not mind a debate. If it's okay with the other members, a debate would be great.

[Craig]

Guys,

This is not a debate forum, questions yes, questions that may disagree, yes, as long as the questioner is trying to understand and learn, and you can agree to disagree.

Debates, NO.  They usually only lead to strife and further disagreements, with no ones mind changed.

If you want to debate do it by PM.

Craig

[ertsky]

1Ti 4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1Jo 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

if someone is a trinitarian, well they have my deepest sympathy, but i am not about to go back under a false doctrine that the Lord Himself has bought and brought me out of.

this is the bible-truths board not the let's all embrace the false doctrine of the trinity board, there are plenty of those out there already.

f

[hillsbororiver]

Frank, I agree wholeheartedly, the Spirit of God who is our Teacher and our Advocate before the Father and is always interceding with Him on our behalf, that is none other than Jesus Christ;

1Jo 2:1  My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Rom 8:18  For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Rom 8:27  And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I found it interesting and instructive that in the verses above we find the root word of creation and creature to be the same, does this help give another insight into the fact that we are "in process" and not "created" into a finished product as of yet?

creature2937

creation2937

G2937
κτίσις

ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.

formation
Function: noun
Pronunciation: fo r-'mA-sh&n
1 : an act of giving form or shape to something or of taking form : DEVELOPMENT
2 : something that is formed <new word formations>
3 : the manner in which a thing is formed : STRUCTURE <the peculiar formation of the heart>
4 : the largest unit in an ecological community comprising two or more associations and their precursors <grassland formation>
5 a : any igneous, sedimentary, or metamorphic rock represented as a unit b : any sedimentary bed or consecutive series of beds sufficiently homogeneous or distinctive to be a unit
6 : an arrangement of a body or group of persons or things in some prescribed manner or for a particular purpose

[ertsky]

i just wanted to say that in my zeal to be completely seperate from false doctrine it may appear as if i personally dislike Lightseeker.

this is definitely not the case

it is the false doctrine i hate not the person who holds it, i bear Lightseeker no personal ill will at all.

i hope all trinitarians come to be set free from all false doctrine, just as i have the same hope for myself in Christ.

that is

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

if anyone insists on a false doctrine being true, after two decent goes at discussing it, i would have to love that person by rejecting them till they repent.

especially if they reject the testimony of several trustworthy brothers on the matter

1Jo 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

just trying to say it's not always pleasant, but we have a duty in Christ, to not allow false doctrine to pass unchallenged amongst ourselves.

2Co 11:2  For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2Co 11:3  But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4  For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

to me if i am to be presented as a chaste virgin to Christ then keeping seperate from false doctrine is of vital importance.

satan cannot defeat Christ in us head on for,

1Jo 4:4  Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

but if he can get some false doctrine in amongst us he has really the chance to wreak havoc, we need to take heed to the doctrine, to the extent that we are faithful to His Word we are faithful to Him. to the extent we know His word we know Him.

f

[ertsky]

and also i felt this verse

1Th 5:21  Test all things, hold fast the good.

f

PS: WOW! great insight Joe

[Lightseeker]

Frank,

i just wanted to say that in my zeal to be completely seperate from false doctrine it may appear as if i personally dislike Lightseeker.

this is definitely not the case

it is the false doctrine i hate not the person who holds it, i bear Lightseeker no personal ill will at all.

Thanks for your clarification Frank.  It's comforting to know that all the teeth marks were really just love bites.  :wink:

JOH 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.35  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

JOB 11:4 For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes. 5  But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee; 6  And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is!

There are many levels in God and it is wise to never put a roof on the level you're at.

[ertsky]

Lightseeker are you a trinitarian or not?

your post certainly indicated you are

if you are, you are in error and need to repent of that false doctrine

thats my love there Lightseeker

trying to warn you and others that the trinity doctrine is false

Rev 3:19  I, as many "as I love, I rebuke and I chasten." Be zealous, then, and repent. Prov. 3:12


f

[Lightseeker]

Frank,

Lightseeker are you a trinitarian or not?
your post certainly indicated you are
if you are, you are in error and need to repent of that false doctrine
thats my love there Lightseeker
trying to warn you and others that the trinity doctrine is false

I believe the Rev. quote is spoken from my Lord and savior.  And if He was rebuking/chastening me....I would repent.  But since it's you who as much as called me a 'false prophet' in a previous post.  I think I wait for someone with a better 'discerning of spirits', if that's OK with you brother.  I think you're one even if you don't think I am.    

Rev 3:19 I, as many "as I love, I rebuke and I chasten." Be zealous, then, and repent.

Your second verse confirms the same authority source.  That isn't why you only gave an address is it?  Please let me do it for you.

PRO 3:12  For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.  

To answer your question as best I can: All I know for sure is that 'great is the mystery of god'.  I also know that I am a spirit, soul, and body (1Thes 5:23).  Or as I prefer to say, I am a spirit I have a soul and I live in a body.  Are you?  If so, then are you a trinity?  I guess I wouldn't consider myself one by any of the definitions of the nomial church.  Hope that helps.

Well I'm off to homegroup seeya lovya bye.

[nightmare sasuke]

Frank,

Lightseeker are you a trinitarian or not?
your post certainly indicated you are
if you are, you are in error and need to repent of that false doctrine
thats my love there Lightseeker
trying to warn you and others that the trinity doctrine is false

I believe the Rev. quote is spoken from my Lord and savior.  And if He was rebuking/chastening me....I would repent.  But since it's you who as much as called me a 'false prophet' in a previous post.  I think I wait for someone with a better 'discerning of spirits', if that's OK with you brother.  I think you're one even if you don't think I am.    

Rev 3:19 I, as many "as I love, I rebuke and I chasten." Be zealous, then, and repent.

Your second verse confirms the same authority source.  That isn't why you only gave an address is it?  Please let me do it for you.

PRO 3:12  For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.  

To answer your question as best I can: All I know for sure is that 'great is the mystery of god'.  I also know that I am a spirit, soul, and body (1Thes 5:23).  Or as I prefer to say, I am a spirit I have a soul and I live in a body.  Are you?  If so, then are you a trinity?  I guess I wouldn't consider myself one by any of the definitions of the nomial church.  Hope that helps.

Well I'm off to homegroup seeya lovya bye.

Lightseeker, I think your hugest error leading to your belief in the Trinity is your misunderstanding of the composition of a human being. You believe a human is made up of three parts, i.e. body, spirit, soul. This doctrine, however, has influences from pagan philosophy, such as Plato, who taught dualism of body and soul and the immortality of the soulâ€"all of which are anti-Scriptural.

For example, God created man in two stages, resulting in man's living form.

[1] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
[2] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
[3] and man became a living soul (Gen 2:7, KJV).

Man become a "living soul" after God formed him from the dust and breathed into him life. The soul is not a separate component of a human but is indeed the human him or herself.

I am a soul, you are a soul, however, I do not have a soul, considering I AM the soul. When I die, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Ecc 12:7, KJV). There is, however, no third part. I have a body with a spark in it that animates it. I am the soul. Take away my spirit, and I am no longer a soul.

If you think about it, the creation of man supports a unity, and not a Trinity. Jesus and God are two beings that make up one flesh or Elohim, just like a Spirit and body are two separate components that make up a living soul; just like a man and woman are two genders that become one through the fleshâ€"which was all created thus and written for our “admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are comeâ€? (1Co 10:11, KJV).

I'd be glad to debate with you via AIM, MSN, or PM.

PS. Keep studying. Discovering who and what Christ is and who and what the Father is and their relationship is the most difficult of the searches the elect engage in. I, myself, have been struggling with whether or not Jesus is Yahweh. However, I stand strong to the fact that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1Co 8:6, KJV).

Keep seeking the light, but listen to the nightmare! Har har har.

[ertsky]

i think lightseeker's posts are deceptive

There is a cry from the seed/spirit that is in every man. And the spirit/seed that's in every man, came from "the Father of spirits" and "God of the spirits of all flesh".  Every human is born with an inherent desire to manifest the likeness of Him.

WHAT!

Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Joh 6:44  No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Unfortunately the unsaved world is still seeking via the tree of knowledge,

no it's the called (babylon) who don't know the hidden wisdom, because it's hidden in Him and they won't go to Him that they might have life.

Adam and Eve's 'soulish deception' is what sentenced them to being dying souls instead of the 'living souls' they were, when they walked in obedience.

God knew they would sin He made them that way (hearts desperately weak) , it is Plan A.

before eve sinned by taking and eating the forbidden fruit she had already shown lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and pride of life.

It appears that man was/is created and formed in the "image of God"

WRONG!

it's a process we are being formed

we like our Master are learning obedience through the things we suffer

we are learning to choose the good and refuse the bad, Christ is being formed within us

Gal 4:19  My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

He is a triune being of Father, Son, Spirit.

false doctrine

1Co 8:6  but to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.

all of this from one post by lightseeker

post full of error, deceptive misleading error

1Jo 4:1  Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

f

[Lightseeker]

Nightmare S,  You really are going to have to explain your username for the newguy.  :?

This doctrine, however, has influences from pagan philosophy, such as Plato, who taught dualism of body and soul and the immortality of the soulâ€"all of which are anti-Scriptural.

Don't know what to tell you except I've never read Plato, but base my understanding on scripture which says YOUR whole spirit, soul, body.

For example, God created man in two stages, resulting in man's living form.

[1] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
[2] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
[3] and man became a living soul (Gen 2:7, KJV).

Reason with me for a moment.  In step 1 is formed past tense?  So when God formed the dust what was laying there devoid of breath?  According to scripture/[1] it was man as a body.  When God breathed (present tense) into that man of dust the breath/spirit of life...he/man now was a body and spirit.  Ever hear of a human vegetable...it's someone who is alive spirit/body but their soul (mind will intellect) is checked out.  Not their brain, but their soul (let the reader understand).  What happened next after step 1,2?  Man became (future tense) a 'living soul' versus a 'dying soul' IMO.

A living soul is someone who is being led of the Sspirit of life and not led by the 'lust of their flesh' (body) or the 'lust of the eyes'  (soul) or by the 'pride of life' (spirit) (false spirit of pride). All those sources lead to being a dying soul.  

When we're not led, of His/our Sspirit of life, but a false spirit we have entered into the sentence of death (in the day [not a 24 hr period in that scripture] that thou eatest thou shalt surely die).  That's what happened to Adam and Eve when they followed after all that is in the world: the lust of their flesh body ("woman saw that the tree was good for food') and the lust of their eyes/soul ("it was pleasant to the eyes") and false spirit of life ("a tree to be desired to make one wise").

Man become a "living soul" after God formed him from the dust and breathed into him life. The soul is not a separate component of a human but is indeed the human him or herself.

Please explain 1Thes 5:23 from your position.

I am a soul, you are a soul, however, I do not have a soul, considering I AM the soul. When I die, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Ecc 12:7, KJV). There is, however, no third part. I have a body with a spark in it that

MAT 10:28   And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.   What's missing in this verse?  The spirit which returned to God as you correctly understand/quoted from Ecc 12:7.

Take away my spirit, and I am no longer a soul.

Correct...you're a dead man body/soul because your spirit man departed just like: LUK 8:55  And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway:

I'd be glad to debate with you via AIM, MSN, or PM.

Know what  :?:  I'm not young enough or computer literate enough to even know what those things are.  Actually I've got my hands full here right now.  I do have to work for a living also.  The length of this post was again time consuming but I am happy still dialogue with you on this thread/subject Niteguy  :wink:


Frank:  What can I say except I'm too busy to respond to one who already 'knows it all'.  Having spent 2 years working on the kill floor of a packing plant I know that iron only sharpens iron if someone knows how to use ‘the steel’.  Keep defending 'your' faith.    God bless.

[ertsky]

Having spent 2 years working on the kill floor of a packing plant I know that iron only sharpens iron if someone knows how to use ‘the steel’.

well i'm a musician, and having spent coming up on 30 years playing, i can tell you it's a problem if you aren't in tune. LOL!

all members of the band must tune to the same reference pitch

if you are not all in tune to the same reference pitch the result is cacophany!

the bible is our reference pitch, Christ is our measuring reference pitch.

the spirit leads us into all truth, the spirit behind the letter

so we can tune to Christ

we don't say Lord You tune to me !  :shock:

we say Lord please give us A=440Hz in the spirit so we can be in tune with You, otherwise we might get suspended from band duty for being out of tune.

lightseeker please check your tuning, that trinity doctrine is clashing with the main theme.

f

[Lightseeker]

f,

I had a equally witty comeback for your last post.  I delayed lunch to write it.  As I was about to post it, the Spirit said don't...go to lunch.  So I did.  It was there that I was convicted as to my attitude and last comment.

Frank: What can I say except I'm too busy to respond to one who already 'knows it all'. Having spent 2 years working on the kill floor of a packing plant I know that iron only sharpens iron if someone knows how to use ‘the steel’. Keep defending 'your' faith. God bless.

The conviciton I felt, was the Father saying, "I love to see my children play...I take no pleasure in their fighting."  I next had a vision of 'the steel and the knife', in His hands.  These words followed, "Except the steel and the knife are both yielded to My hand nothing is accomplished."

You can take the above for what it's worth to you, but with it I offer my sincere apology for the above quoted comments, as well as the one I didn't post.  I also feel compelled to cease dialogue with you until free to do so.  I hope you understand.

[Joey Porter]

You can take the above for what it's worth to you, but with it I offer my sincere apology for the above quoted comments, as well as the one I didn't post.  I also feel compelled to cease dialogue with you until free to do so.  I hope you understand.

I appreciate the humility and honesty of this poster.

[ertsky]

but what about the doctrine!

this is a message board, the bible truths message board !

we can post all we like, go too far, not go far enough

but what about the doctrine?.

howabout yes i am a trinitarian?

or no i am not a trinitarian?

sometimes i get a bit frustrated that some do not seem to want to get the doctrine right.

to directly address the one thing we can easily address

THE DOCTRINE. not the style of manner, the  niceties or lack thereof.

a straight answer to a straight question

coming to the bt boards and saying god is a triune being is WHAT!

quite alright ! should go unchallenged ?

2Jo 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

test the teaching, test the doctrine

f

[ertsky]

let's get this straight

Rev 2:14  But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


Balaam taught Balac that if he could just get God's people to allow a few false doctrines in then they would be easy pickings !

commit fornication = allow false doctrines in unchecked and unchallenged amongst the people

this is important

even more important than many want to know, the verse starts

Rev 2:14  But I have a few things against thee

OH WE LOVE YOU LORD, WE LOVE EVERYONE,LOVE LOVE LOVE

oh really, then why don't you defend yourselves and your brothers against false doctrine.

WHY AREN'T YOU FAITHFUL TO MY WORD ?

in Love

f

Joh 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Rev 3:19  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

defending the doctrine is a very important attribute of Love

Joh 10:12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Joh 10:14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

[Joey Porter]

I am certainly not a trinitarian but I still don't have a complete understanding of the God/Christ relationship.  So I won't condemn another who doesn't.  Obviously if someone came out and said they believed in the trinity, I'd have to tell them that it's an unscriptural teaching of pagan origins. And if they continued to defend the trinity concept, I would consider it an idol.

But I created a separate thread on Christ's deity/origin and I see that no one here seems to have a full grasp of it.  In fact, if you see my last post in the "Was Christ Created" thread, I'm not sure that Mike has the correct doctrine on this issue either.