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Author Topic: Putting It All In Perspective  (Read 1844 times)

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JohnGA

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Putting It All In Perspective
« on: November 27, 2007, 12:50:12 PM »

My wife who is also a believer was raised in tithe COGIC.  I on the other hand was raised in a Non-Charasmatic Evangelical ministry.  Talk about the contrast  :).  We met at a charismatic church in NY which I was attending despite my challenges with certain doctrine (i.e., tongues, tithing etc.).  But in an almost acceptance that there must be something wrong with me mentality I became a member there and subsequently met my wife and we have been married now for almost 13 years.  The challenge comes in because I believe that at my core I still believe what I believed back then that many of the doctrines we regard as biblical are not that at all.  We as a couple have been going through some major financial challenges over the past several months much of which I personally attribute to bad management on our parts.  But my wife feels that it must be something spiritual.  She accidentally stumbled across Ray's writing on Tithing Being Non-Biblical and feels certain that the problems we are having is because of my willingness to open my self up to this "false-teaching".  In one conversation she said to me that if we are faithful in our tithes and offering God will bless us.  I told here that I disagreed and that that point was not biblical but rather that sound financial planning and management are critical to staying balanced financially.  God blesses us with wisdom and principles from His word that we can apply but we must apply them versus simply believing that because we tithe we have no other responsibility and God will bail us out when we create a mess.  I really need your prayers.  Not just that God will help us through this very difficult period financially and not even so that my wife's eyes will be opened around this issue.  My major prayer is for direction from here as a couple.  Honestly, I struggle with how we will remain a couple with such varying viewpoints around our faith.  We recently stopped attending a mega church in Atlanta and have been attending a smaller church where there is good teaching but still at its foundation are the same beliefs around tithing and related blessing.  Were I to truly open up around my beliefs and the teachings I am receiving from here, it would result in a "Battle Royale" in our home.  I don't want that.  I also don't want to spend the rest of my life floundering at a level of misunderstanding when there is real truth available to us.  I am not asking anyone to sanction me divorcing my wife  but rather for prayer and any other direction or wisdom anyone else may have gleaned from similar experiences.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 04:56:01 PM »


Quote
I am not asking anyone to sanction me divorcing my wife


That is a relief because I can not sanction such a thing and if YOU are the issue regarding loosing a comfort zone with mutual beliefs with your wife, then this would already be as you say a "Battle Royale"  perhaps not in your home as such but in your own heart? If so then all I can say is I don't believe that you have to choose between your wife and marriage and the Truth JohnGA. That is not necessary. If your wife is not given to see right now, it is you who have to exercise sensitivity and endurance as you suffer to enjoy what you have found alone and in God's time and Will together with your wife but first with Christ as your Lord.

There is so much to understand and comprehend. Talking about it and sharing it at first glance is not the way to proceed until such time as these truths are deeply ingrained and integrated and only then it becomes available as a witness to others God Willing.

For example, the teaching on Free Will is so VAST and so DEEP it is so all pervading and impacting it is virtually impossible to apprehend such Truth on a first thought basis. It is an experience nevermind a teaching!

Tread quietly in wisdom and peacefully are my thoughts towards you JohnGA. Your marriage need not be torn apart. You are the head of your wife so continue to love, cherish and gently esteem and regard her while being the best husband you can continue to be!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Matt

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 09:35:00 PM »

 John,
   I am currently experiencing a very similar situation in my home.  It has been several years for me, and I stopped trying to "convert" my wife.  I have found it much easier to share in the things of Christ that we have in common with each other and slowly build upon that, instead of feeding her the word with a firehose ;)

Every once in a while, I introduce something new for her to ponder.  Now she takes me seriously because we have already come into agreement about previous topics that were not so controversial (she feels safe now). 
I will pray for you my brother, stay strong!

Matt
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indianabob

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2007, 01:14:31 AM »

My wife who is also a believer was raised in tithe COGIC.  I on the other hand was raised in a Non-Charasmatic Evangelical ministry.  Talk about the contrast  :).  We met at a charismatic church in NY which I was attending despite my challenges with certain doctrine (i.e., tongues, tithing etc.).  But in an almost acceptance that there must be something wrong with me mentality I became a member there and subsequently met my wife and we have been married now for almost 13 years.  The challenge comes in because I believe that at my core I still believe what I believed back then that many of the doctrines we regard as biblical are not that at all.  We as a couple have been going through some major financial challenges over the past several months much of which I personally attribute to bad management on our parts.  But my wife feels that it must be something spiritual.  She accidentally stumbled across Ray's writing on Tithing Being Non-Biblical and feels certain that the problems we are having is because of my willingness to open my self up to this "false-teaching".  In one conversation she said to me that if we are faithful in our tithes and offering God will bless us.  I told here that I disagreed and that that point was not biblical but rather that sound financial planning and management are critical to staying balanced financially.  God blesses us with wisdom and principles from His word that we can apply but we must apply them versus simply believing that because we tithe we have no other responsibility and God will bail us out when we create a mess.  I really need your prayers.  Not just that God will help us through this very difficult period financially and not even so that my wife's eyes will be opened around this issue.  My major prayer is for direction from here as a couple.  Honestly, I struggle with how we will remain a couple with such varying viewpoints around our faith.  We recently stopped attending a mega church in Atlanta and have been attending a smaller church where there is good teaching but still at its foundation are the same beliefs around tithing and related blessing.  Were I to truly open up around my beliefs and the teachings I am receiving from here, it would result in a "Battle Royale" in our home.  I don't want that.  I also don't want to spend the rest of my life floundering at a level of misunderstanding when there is real truth available to us.  I am not asking anyone to sanction me divorcing my wife  but rather for prayer and any other direction or wisdom anyone else may have gleaned from similar experiences.

New Friend John,

Please consider the following as offered in love and respect for your personal needs and your obligations toward God, your family and toward your own character development.  I realize that this is a sensitive topic and would ask you to consider that some of us have already been through a similar trial.  Thanks for your understanding.

1.  There is  NO reason for a husband to divorce his wife other than blatant and continuing unfaithfulness to the marriage vows.  Even then the husband should consider forgiveness as his obligation to God and his wife.  We husbands are to LOVE our wives AS Christ loves the church and gave his life for us.  No exceptions.

2. You are not under any obligation to convert or retrain your wife or to correct her from her misunderstanding.  God alone has that responsibility and authority and power and intelligence to accomplish conversion of any one of us.  It is a special, individual miracle, a loving gift from God to each of us in God's own timing, not ours.

3. As husbands and as heads of our wives and as examples of how God cares for all of his children, the most important task for us is to lead by example and in sacrificial love toward those around us, especially those of our own household.  There is no one in the world who is more closely a member of your household than your wife. 
In fact she is so close to you that you are one flesh.  Two minds working together to build a family.

4.  Husbands must keep in mind that that command to be as one flesh in a Godly marriage is first of all a physical relationship, a relationship that you both have been building for 13 years.  Now, suddenly, you have the opportunity to begin to build a spiritual relationship as well.  Now you are being called to learn together to love God more than self and to love one another equally.  However, in His great wisdom, God is giving you the lead. God is giving you the opportunity to lead spiritually as you have been leading physically.  As you have said, your wife is not seeing the truth at this time and it may be several years until God opens her mind and heart to understand what you can see so plainly even now.  This is a difficult and a demanding task and it will require all of your human resources, especially patience and outgoing love.  You must wait until God decides to call her.

5.  Please keep in mind that you are being given an awesome opportunity to serve God, the creator of the universe and to learn skills of service and well doing and sacrificial love that millions have sought over the centuries.  In order to be successful you will need to keep in mind that it will not be easy, it will tax your patience and your understanding to the limit.  So we must let God strengthen us.  Only God's holy spirit can accomplish it.  With God nothing is impossible, but we/you must let God work in us/you to remain a good example.

6.  You will have problems, you may make selfish mistakes and need to repent and apologize to your family and friends and especially to your wife.  Expect it and plan for it and keep in mind what you are building.  Better yet keep in mind what God is building within you; perfect loving character similar to that of our Lord Jesus.

7.  Please try to keep in mind that you will be disappointed with yourself from time to time; that is normal and is an opportunity to seek God's spirit to strengthen you and guide you in your journey.

John, the comments I have offered are my own feelings and I am just a man like you.  So, if anything I have said seems helpful I am glad.

Respectfully, Indiana bob
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Phil3:10

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2007, 02:14:19 AM »

John,
I am also experiencing a similar situation in my marriage. I do yearn so much for my wife to come out of the Babylonian system. I have found that she is slowly, but surely questioning many of the traditions and practices she is witnessing in the system. I do take every opportunity to read to her as we work side-by-side at our computers. She has asked me several questions about Ray's teachings and in GOD'S time my prayer is that she will come out. However, the wise counsel of Arcturus and Indiana Bob is much appreciated by me as I continue prayerfully to ask for HIS leadership and direction.
Phil3:10
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eggi

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 05:43:42 PM »

Hello John,

There are many things that we have to learn, but in fact I see more and more that it all comes down to one thing, we have to understand that God is totally sovereign. Until we see and accept this truth, we believe such things as "We need to pay our tithes to be blessed financially", "I have to do some good things to earn my salvation", and so on... This really is one of the most profound things we learn, just like Arcturus pointed out.

The fact that your wife believes that your tithes are required to be blessed shows that she is lacking in knowledge. Pray for her and ask God to give her the knowledge that you have been given. Seek to not have quarrels with your wife even if she lacks understanding:

Ye husbands, in like manner, dwell with your wives according to knowledge, giving honor unto the woman, as unto the weaker vessel, as being also joint-heirs of the grace of life; to the end that your prayers be not hindered. (1Pe 3:7 KJV)

As Indiana Bob said: "We husbands are to LOVE our wives AS Christ loves the church and gave his life for us."

Do your part by taking responsibility for your expenses, and make decisions. If you are sure that these decisions will lead to a more stable economy, I believe your wife will follow your lead. Be determined and open about what you are doing. You could mention to your wife that God has blessed you, but now you have "wasted your substance":

And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. (Luk 15:13-14 KJV)

I'm not saying that you "wasted your substance with riotous living", as did the prodigal son, but you mentioned that the problems were due to "bad management on your parts". Notice that the prodigal son didn't return to his father to tithe or pay back. The father accepted him back, just because he came to him, without anything to offer. In this way, we also must come to Christ. He has ALL to offer us, we have NOTHING to offer him. He is the Creator of the Universe, He is the Alpha and Omega, there is not one thing that we have that He needs. We all have wasted our substance, because we are wasters by nature. A hard pill to swallow, but that's what we have to do.

God bless you,
Eirik
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

GODSown1

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2007, 08:52:45 PM »

Hey!! JohnGA,
                  I dont believe we've met  :) Welcome!! brother, its funny 4 sum reason I found dis Thread of urz in which I had neva read b4, But! n e way herez sum encouragment  :) well GOD Willing of coz  ;D. Well it is da same wit me & my Wife we have been 2gether 4 about 17years we were Only married dis year Jan/30th, & my eyes hav only been Opened 2 GOD/JESUS since Jan/2005, az I hav a Gang backround of 23yrz 1981-2003, but thru all d@ happened az GOD is in Control, I started 2 want 2 know dis GOD & HIS Son JESUS whom id neva been told about, well az far az I could remember n e way. But! wow! wen I actually read The Bible (The Only Book Ive read in my Life 2 the End & understood it, well 2 a point)  :), Honestly, so I/we went thru da church rigmarol etc (my wife & I have 3 children 2gether) but I hav 4 to another, but them 4 hav growen & moved on. Well n e way lol!  :D , We attended a church, Loved da pple da Pastors da worship well I think U know wot I mean, Well until GOD lead me 2 BibleTruths.com in Febuary dis yr, & wow! has it been one Bumpy!!!! ride, between me & my wife, Pastors, friends thru church, den I started thinking & den askn, "FATHER! have I really been deceived, as my wife & Pastors & church friends r sayn"??, "Please! FATHER 4give me so if I have, I repent of it All", I felt so Lonely!, rejected, unLoved basically All one meaning, it was'nt Good. But! den GOD just kept bringing more understanding & knowledge in Abundance 2 HIS Truths of HIS Word, gave me more & more strength so I Will endure! All 4 HIS Glory!!, Praise The LORD, & Words of JESUS came 2 me like "If U r persecuted, know I was b4 U" Wow! from den I jus Knew in my Heart! its All Good just like "Our GOD". Well Ive neva hav been 1 2 study! az I finished skewl @ da age of 13, joined da Gang @ 16. But! I Thank GOD az I hav studied & studied, written many thingz I hav pages & pages of stuff of exsperiences etc.., My mum, family, old friends, new friendz r just so Amazed! @ it All, & 2 b Truthfull even I am, But I have come 2 know it is All of GOD & d@s a Fact!, coz I know, my Wife knows, my mum knows, my family knows d@ NOway! I wouldve even thort let alone done such Works  ;D, Thank YOU FATHER. GezZ! sorry!  :) back 2 where I was heading  :D I Print owt most of Rays teachings, um!.. I Print stuff I feel r Beneficial out of da Forum, Amazing! People GOD has bort here wit Great knowledge & a wealth of exsperience, GOD Bless! U All.., Well I started leaving bits in pieces of written material frm Rays Teachings & of print outs of da Forum with no intentions just laying around da house,  about 2weeks ago, GOD inspired me 2 begin a Study group & Amazing HE bort a guy in2 my life whom Spoke like us all in dis hea forum likeminded, as in FREE! & very! scriptual in knowledge Thank GOD, My Prays were answered Thank YOU LORD, His name is BazZ We just hav so much laughs The JOY! of being FREE!, well on our first night it was jus mean't 4 my wife, children & me & BazZ, well my wife confessed 2 us without me knowing She would Read the stuff id leave laying around, Man!! I was jus like "speechless!" 2 say da least lol!  ;D, well lastnites Study we had another addition & many more interested 2 attend our Group WoW! GOD is so so GOOD, my wife lastnite just bort tears 2 my eyes, as wot came from her mouth was jus synboic 2 her Eyes been Opened 2 da TRUTH Amazing!!, she was sort of questioning Y hasnt she or da Pastors, da churchs in a Whole, Y!!?? dont/didnt she/they SEE dis All b4??. but she now sees da meaning behind da Veil, & Only sum Eyes & Ears b Opened, & I believe feels quite Blessed in her Revelation!, Amen! 2 d@..
    Well JohnGA I believe Patience, Pray is the Key brother, its All in GODS! Time, I say again, its All  GODS Timing!, Well I hope dis Helps U brother or n e 1 else d@ may read it, help in sum way, may GOD bring U Patience, Comfort & HIS Peace so d@ U may/Will endure All throwen @ U & ur Wife, take heed "GOD is in Control", GOD Bless!..
     much muchLOVE!! Pera

ps. Lastnight We just had so much fun, I said 2 BazZ wow! bo can U just imagine 2 or more likeminded people fellowshipping wit us, I aint laughed so much in agez (aions)  ;D . wota night Thank YOU FATHER (JOHN 8:36) FREE!!!!!!!!           
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gmik

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2007, 09:10:46 PM »

Dear Pera, ;D ;D ;D How awesome!  What wonderful news!!!!   What a testimony you have brother!!!

John take heart from another's trials and triumphs.  We don't know what God has in store, but Rejoice and Be Glad, Love One Another, and bear one anothers burdens, live in the Spirit and flow in the Fruit of the Spirit.  That is just a wee bit of what can occupy your time as you See His Plan unfold!!  God Bless You.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Putting It All In Perspective
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 09:25:23 PM »

PERA AMEN! All i can do is echo what others have said.

Pera that was a moveing story and wonderful news indeed!!

GOd bless,

Alex
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