Is Debt Wrong?

[kweli]

Hi All

I'm new here and am grateful to God for having been opened up to such truths found here at BT. May God continue blessing Ray, the website and fellow believers.

Since I have the urge to learn more and gain much understanding, there will be a lot of things I will ask in the forum. I hope it wont be mistaken as debating religious issue, but rather fellowshipping, which is very essential (at leat to me).

Enough about be now. I have a concern on an issue. Here are scriptures which had me questioning if debt (or being in debt) is right/wrong:

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one

Proverbs 22:7
The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower becomes the lender's slave

1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage

Based on Scripture, is Debt Wrong? Your responses on this matter will be greatly appreciated. I could have posted this question to Ray but the truth is, his responses intimidate me more than enlighten me. As I usually read this quote here, this too shall pass. Oh and please, if I missed a response to a question  similar to this, please be easy on me. I'm new here.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli

[Chris R]

Hi Kweli

Tough question, Paul was speaking of the best possible methods to become a "freeman" not actually to a law or command [read 1Cor 7:12]

No one likes to be in debt, but i don't know to many young folks who don't have a mortgage, and even if you don't, I'm sure you have to pay a yearly tax, school tax, and alike, i know folks who have long since paid off their homes, only to find their current taxes to be more of a monthly bill, than their house payment..

Having a measure of debt in itself isn't bad, i reckon it would depend on what type of debt? I have debt on my house, but..the house is worth much more than the debt, see what I'm saying.

Debt becomes bad when you owe much more than your assets.
As for the rest of your post, I'm sure others will give you some help.

Peace

Chris R

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Kweli

I do not believe that debt is either right or wrong.

No debt is better than some debt and some debt is better than no wisdom. Sometimes to live in a house you have to have a mortgage as Chris R points out. 

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[Matt]

I am sure there are those out there in Christiandom that will say it is OK for people to go in debt, as long as they get their 10%, firstfruit offering, and any other offering.

I believe debt is something that should be minimized and considered only after much prayer.  Spend enough time talking to God, and He will show you the difference between a need and a want!

Matt

[kweli]

Hi all. Thank you for responding

Chris R, thanks for clarifying that Scripture for me.

Arcturus, I'm not too sure I undersstand what you mean by "some debt is better than no wisdom", but if/when it is granted to me to understand, I will.

Matthew, the truth about tithing in the new covenant has lifted a huge burden off my shoulders. Thank God for that. I believe it was Him who lifted it off since I did "cast my burden unto Him". Glory to Him.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli

[Matt]

  I was reading this again, and I started thinking about "Proverbs 22:7
The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower becomes the lender's slave"

Has anyone ever abused their credit card and felt like a "the lender's slave"?

Matt

[Chris R]

Hi Matt,

Sometimes, the outcome of certain things, are the result of certain actions.

Large credit card debt could be the result of "Pride of Life", "Lust of Flesh" Or honering ones self.

The result can be large debt, but SIN is what the cause is.

Actually if you look at Eve in the Garden, "Eating" the fruit was the result, of the sin in her heart.

While some debt can be a result of certain fleshly desires, providing for ones family with good intention to pay back the lender, can hardly qualify for doing wrong.

Chris R

[Phil3:10]

I witness quite often people that are in debt not of their own choosing. Some examples are medical debt, emergencies like wrecking their car, and helping others with legitimate needs. Debt based on the pride of life and greed is surely not good and can lead to much pain and suffering. Proverbs 22:7 gives us fair warning about the wrong kind of debt. I seriously doubt that if any of us were hungry and only had a credit card that we would fail to use it.
Rick Ingram

[Matt]

Great points that I failed to consider! 
Understanding now that debt is not always our fault, being in debt is still like being a slave to the one you are in debt to.  This is not meant to be a negative statement, just an observation.  I really enjoy learning here in the forum and I never intend to be confrontational.  I still need to work on my non verbal communication skills!

[Chris R]

Great points that I failed to consider! 
Understanding now that debt is not always our fault, being in debt is still like being a slave to the one you are in debt to.  This is not meant to be a negative statement, just an observation.  I really enjoy learning here in the forum and I never intend to be confrontational.  I still need to work on my non verbal communication skills!

Hi Matt,

You do well on your non verbal communication skills, I tend underline words, italicize words, bold type words, to bring out a specific point or phrase, i think sometimes i over do it.

Peace

Chris R

[musicman]

I think that debt with a plan can be good debt.  This means, someone should carry a ballance on a credit card only if this is a temporary means to get by.  If one sees financial growth in the future he/she may greatly benefit by purchasing things that will help them get to the starting line (wardrobe, business lunches, etc.).  The credit card companies are perfectly happy accepting your minimum payment until the day you die.  They'll stop allowing you to charge on it long before that day, though.  I think it's hilliarious that creditors will allow and honest but naive consumer to struggle forever but the second they see that payments aren't being made, they're more than willing to cut their losses.  By this I mean, somebody who can't or won't make payments will eventually be allowed to pay a fraction of what they owe and be left alone.

I think that the creditors are the devil!!   (Inspired by Cathy Bates in "Water Boy")

[rjsurfs]

Hi Kweli and All,

I think Chris said it best:

Sometimes, the outcome of certain things, are the result of certain actions.

Large credit card debt could be the result of "Pride of Life", "Lust of Flesh" Or honering ones self.

The result can be large debt, but SIN is what the cause is.

Actually if you look at Eve in the Garden, "Eating" the fruit was the result, of the sin in her heart.

While some debt can be a result of certain fleshly desires, providing for ones family with good intention to pay back the lender, can hardly qualify for doing wrong.

Kweli said:

Arcturus, I'm not too sure I understand what you mean by "some debt is better than no wisdom", but if/when it is granted to me to understand, I will.

I can't speak for Arcturus to know what she meant exactly... but what I thought of is the wisdom I've gained through my experiences...
Believing:
Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
I have gained wisdom through the experiences (all things) of my past... including the experience of debt.

Bobby

[Deborah-Leigh]

Some debt is better than no wisdom means it is better to have a mortgage on a house than no home at all 

[kweli]

Thank you all for your responses. Another burden has been lifted.

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli

[Chris R]

Hi acomplishedartis

I understand what your saying, the scriptures also speak concerning oppression, extortion, and like sins. To be unjustly burdened or to be overcharged for a service, is no better than to have acquired debt for vain purposes.

To charge folks thousands of dollars for a hospital visit for a hurt hand deters on the edge of thievery, and to charge folks 24% interest on a credit card loan, because a payment was missed, is no better than stealing chickens from a farmers coupe.

As with all sins, These will have to answer to God for it!

Chris R

[Deborah-Leigh]

We are all in debt to Jesus. Who can pay HIM BACK? ( Caps not shouting...just for emphasis! )

I liked your post Moises. Thank you!

Peace be to you

Arcturus