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Author Topic: Walking on water???  (Read 2951 times)

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kweli

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Walking on water???
« on: December 05, 2007, 08:22:11 AM »

Hi all

I saw a sermon which was about these verses: John 14: 12-14

12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.


The pastor was asking, if Jesus said we will do even greater things than what he did, why havent we at least started doing the things that he was doing? He asked, why havent we at least started walking on water?

Of course he had to say it is because of our lack of the Holy Spirit which was in Jesus. Then line people up and pray for them until they start hyperventilating and fainting. That was expected. But his question had me thinking a lot. Why arent we walking on water (at the very least)?

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 08:57:33 AM »

Hi Kweli,

It is my belief these "greater works" will be accomplished in the next age as the elect with Christ bring in the Fall Harvest.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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kweli

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 11:03:59 AM »

Hi Joe. Thanks for responding

I look at John 14 as Jesus telling us what will be when he's gone back to the Father, not necessarily when the elect will be with him in the next age. In the verses that follow he says we will have a Counselor to remind us of all that he said. So I'm not sure about accomplishing greater works when being with him.

I dont like sci fi, so Im not trying to see us walk on water. But we do have faith in him...
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Extol

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 12:36:04 PM »

Hi Kweli,
 I see Jesus speaking of spiritual things here.

"The words that I speak to you are spirit..." John 6:63
 
  I was born with my physical sight, but when I came to bible-truths.com, it was like my eyes were opened for the first time. It was like the friend who led me to the site, as well as Ray, had healed me of blindness. I'd much rather be healed of spiritual blindness than physical blindness. To me, this is a greater healing than the kind Jesus performed. Jesus fed the thousands, but they hungered again. Jesus healed people and raised them from the dead, but they died anyway. The spiritual is greater.

 Another thought I had when I read the pastor's quote: What would be the point of us physically walking on water? How would it make us any more spiritual?  ;)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 02:45:15 PM »

Hello Kweli

Just a few thoughts.

You have had some very good replies so far. I always believe that when I am in doubt it is wise to refer to http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

From this I quote Rays teaching here : Man is not a "spirit being" having a "physical" experience, but rather man is a "physical and mortal" being having a "spiritual" experience. We are first born mortal [physical], but in the resurrection God gives us immortality (the spiritual).

This makes good sense to me. I can certainly accept that  no one is yet spiritual.

We know that Christ descended from Heaven and was Spiritual and able to do the miracles He did. Demons who are spirits can also perform so called miracles.

Human kind is not spiritual yet. We can have spiritual thoughts and receive the blessed influence in experience of the Mind of Christ, Grace (Divine influence on our hearts) and fruit of His Spirit but the Mind of Christ and the Fruit of the Spirit and Divine Influence of God for me refers to the inheritance of Christ not of mankind.....not yet....Mankind has not yet received liberation from corruption, vanity and imperfection.

The process of conversion into the image of Christ is not complete or finalized yet and neither has it been perfected in or on any individual born of woman except in Christ Jesus the savior of Humankind who has set us the example of how to live in His Spirit and keep His ways.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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Craig

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2007, 03:18:42 PM »

Quote
12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.

That scripture is definitely a statement of fact, but it does not denote any time factor.

I could say "go to medical school and you will become a doctor."

I have stated you a fact but you will not become a doctor the next day.  You will become a doctor when you have finished your training, and passed your tests.

Jesus says anyone who has faith shall do what He has been doing.  But he doesn't state how much faith or how far down the road we will run before it is given to us, only that we shall receive it when our journey has ended.

Anyway, that is my thoughts.

Craig
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UncleBeau

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2007, 05:37:16 PM »

You would have to think first, that when Jesus walked on water, was it great because He could, or because there was great meaning and spiritual symbolism behind what He did?

Revelation 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.


In this lifetime, how can we walk on water when we keep falling back in?

1 Corinthians 10:10-12
   
 10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

 11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

 12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.





something to think about.

-Beau
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M_Oliver

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2007, 07:48:05 PM »

I agree with those who say it does not say WHEN.  This fact is something that has helped me with alot of other Scriptures that at first make you think you should be able to do it NOW when in fact it is not stated as such.

Mark
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2007, 09:05:14 PM »


You would have to think first, that when Jesus walked on water, was it great because He could, or because there was great meaning and spiritual symbolism behind what He did?



Great point Beau,

Obviously it was an attention getter, but not for any vain purpose, just as anything Jesus did it was all for the glory of God not for His own gain or popularity. As you stated things such as this were done in the flesh for those who are being given eyes to see spiritual things, so they can meditate on its deeper meaning and significance.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 
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gmik

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2007, 09:39:48 PM »

Great Question Kweli!  And great answers!!

I have often thought, that Paul reached more people than Jesus did.  Jesus was confined to Jerusalem and surroundings.

Look how many people Ray has touched thru the internet!!

Penicillin has "healed" more people than Jesus physically did.

Maybe it is something like that???
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2007, 10:12:19 PM »

Hi again Gena,

You bring up a good point since Jesus did not actually convert anyone during His ministry, the conversions began at Pentacost, these conversions certainly are great thing, but even so the only ones being converted in the present age are the elect, the Spring Harvest crop, the greater crop will be at the Fall Harvest.

This came to mind when thinking about Christ's prophecy;


Isa 64:4  For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither, have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Peace,

Joe

 
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Sorin

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 02:28:17 AM »

I would love to be able to walk on water, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, etc....
But think about it, if anybody was able to do these things, especially the walking on water, were everyone can see-who wouldn't believe?
And what use would there be for faith with that kind of proof? Faith is believing in something that is not proven.

Just my thoughts on the matter...

Peace,

Sorin
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kweli

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2007, 05:40:02 AM »

In this lifetime, how can we walk on water when we keep falling back in?

I'm flawed by this Beau. It reminds me of Peter when he did walk on water but fell in because his faith was shaken. Jesus actually asked him why he doubted, "ye of little faith" (Matthew 14:31).

It is becoming clearer. Thank you all for your responses

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Craig

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2007, 08:24:52 AM »

I would love to be able to walk on water, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, etc....
But think about it, if anybody was able to do these things, especially the walking on water, were everyone can see-who wouldn't believe?
And what use would there be for faith with that kind of proof? Faith is believing in something that is not proven.



You would think so wouldn't you Sorin.  But that wouldn't be how it works.  Remember the Israelites saw Moses part the Red Sea as well as many other miracles and look what they did.  Christ performed all the miracles that He did and when they crucified Him only a few believed and his closest followers denied Him.

No matter what we see with our eyes, without the gift of faith we are blind.

Craig
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Matt

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2007, 10:46:34 PM »

Reading everyone's thoughts here and I can't help but wonder, doesn't God have it all planned? 
If He wants one of us to walk on water, raise the dead, heal, etc... Won't He will make sure we do it?! :)

Matt
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gmik

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Re: Walking on water???
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2007, 06:57:48 PM »

 :D :D  Amen Matt.
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