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Author Topic: God Is Hell???  (Read 29102 times)

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hillsbororiver

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God Is Hell???
« on: December 05, 2007, 08:55:29 AM »

From LOF Part 1

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

God IS this lake of fire!

But since it is not literal fire, what does it burn? What does it consume? -- It is the "works of the flesh" that made sinners of those thrown into the lake of fire in the first place. And we shall see from the Scriptures that it is these very works of the flesh that are consumed in this lake of fire. And donít think for a moment that it is not a most painful and tormenting experience to have oneís carnal mind with all its ungodly passions, thoughts and deeds, burned clean and pure by the consuming fire of Godís Holy Spirit!

God doesnít change. He will use the same method in the day of judging at the white throne as He uses on US. Although the intensity will get considerably more severe for those who blaspheme till the end.

We are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8). However, that does not purge us from all our filthy thoughts and deeds. No, there is more. There is also a consuming FIRE that God uses on us:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every manís work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MANíS WORK of what sort it is. If any manís work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any manís work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS; but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in Godís consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!!

Ah dear readers, can we begin to understand the workings of God? God consumes with fire, the wood, hay and stubble in our lives. The things that donít deserve to continue. But he REFINES the gold, silver, and precious stones (those doctrines and godly character traits of Godís spirit that abide the fire). It is figurative language, it is an analogy, it is a parable, it is metaphorical (where one thing is called another thing). Our lives have either qualities of character (which are likened to gold and precious stones, things of value to refine and retain), or gross lacks in character (which are likened to wood, hay, and stubble and which are not worthy to retain or preserve).

And just as real literal fire is used to refine and purify gold and precious metals, so Godís SPIRITUAL FIRE refines and purifies us from our sinful and carnal nature. And likewise, as real literal fire is used to burn up wood and stubble, so Godís all consuming SPIRITUAL FIRE will consume and burn up all the impurities in our life. These things MUST DIE. This purging is the SECOND DEATH. And whether the person God subjects to His consuming fire has many good qualities or none, the person himself shall be purged, purified, and SAVED BY GODíS ALL-CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!! We just read it in Godís Holy Word. How can any deny it? Every person who has ever lived will be subjected to the cleaning fire of Godís spirit.

God is the JUDGE (Rev. 20;12). NOT Satan. This judgment throne is "WHITE" not black! God judges in righteousness.

"He shall judge the world with RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Psalm 96:13)

"Because He [God] hath appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Acts 17:31)

Next I present a Scripture that many fundamentalists hate. Iíll bet if you attended a fundamentalist church, you never heard a sermon on this verse. We read that God has appointed a day (a period of time) in which He will "JUDGE" the whole world. Revelation 20:10-15 IS THAT DAY OF JUDGMENT! Now we know that those not found in the book of life will be put into FIRE, and they will be TORMENTED. This is certainly part of this judgment. But it is not literal fire. Literal fire burns up physical things and literal fire cannot harm spiritual things. So what does the fire do or accomplish? MUCH!

This judgment in Revelation 20 IS that worldwide judgment spoken of in many prophecies. But is the purpose of this worldwide judgment to torture people by burning their flesh in real fire for all eternity? Is that HOW God judges in "righteousness"? Absolutely not. We just read where God burns up our fleshly WORKS, and this is "tormenting" for sure. But God does not torture our flesh for all eternity. Donít get me wrong, there will be severe chastisements on those who despise God and His Savior and His Gospel. But out of their ashes will come salvation. Here is another marvelous Scripture which answers what happens to sinning humanity when God JUDGES THE WORLD in righteousness.

"For he [GOD] bringeth down them that dwell on high; the lofty city, he layeth it low, HE LAYETH IT LOW, even to the ground, he bringeth it even to the dust" (Isa. 26:5)

Make no mistake, God will judge the wicked with great severity. However, ALWAYS FOR A BENEVOLENT PURPOSE:

"With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9)!!

There will come a time when those who only knew how to blaspheme the name of God, will come to LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. They will not just "hear" of righteousness, no, they will actually "LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS"!

The whole book of Isaiah speaks of judgments on Israel and on the nations. But the end of all these judgments is SALVATION TO ALL. Notice Isa. 45:22-23,

"Look unto me, and BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness [as in, ĎFor this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,í I Tim. 2:3-4] , and shall not return, That unto me EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE SHALL SWEAR" (See also: Phil. 2: 9-11 & I Cor. 12:3).

Godís words will NOT return empty or void. When God speaks, it will be done. When God wills, it will be done. When God desires, His desires WILL BE DONE:

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE ... I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isa. 46:10-11).

Oh the blasphemy of those who teach that Godís most heartfelt desires WILL NOT COME TO PASS, but will utterly fail!!! Jesus Christ is not the potential Savior of the world; He IS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!! HE WILL SAVE THE WORLD!!!

How many self-appointed, bible-thumping, doomsday, fire and brimstone, eternal torture in hell preachers believe these verses in Isaiah? Not one that I know of! Most Christians have never been taught the Scriptures that I am giving you. These things are despised by many who call themselves "Christian." And yet, Godís Word is FULL of such statements of Godís salvation to all.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Part II: No one will escape God's CONSUMING FIRE (Heb. 12:29).
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 03:30:56 PM »

Joe

It is quite extraordinary that you should have been caused to post this excerpt. I have been reading the LOF from part 1 again and seeing this teaching here in the Forum makes it appear altogether NEW again! It shows for me the ALIVENESS of HIS Spirit thoughout the teachings.

I find it appropriate that you title this Thread the way you do! ;D

God made His Adversary to sift, waste and destroy mans carnal mindedness and for good reason for mans vanity, corruption and bondage to idolatry.

From LOF 2 Quote : Satan is functioning PERFECTLY as God's adversary. Satan is essential to the purpose and salvation of the whole human race. That is why God created him in the first place.

What I find absolutely uplifting and inspiring is the following also from LOF 2 Quote

"By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; His HAND has FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT" (Job 26:13) God garnished the heavens by HIS SPIRIT....But the crooked SERPENT God formed by HIs " Hand"....not of His HEART AND SPIRIT.


All the beautiful things God has made of HIS SPIRIT AND HEART.....THAT is so HEART WARMING! The crooked things He has made at arms length and these are for a perfect and benevolent purpose!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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hillsbororiver

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 08:59:06 PM »


I find it appropriate that you title this Thread the way you do! ;D


Hi Arcturus,

Thanks for your comments and the additions you made on this topic.

It had struck me as I was rereading this article that the Fire that saves all mankind is basically being preached to be hell, Babylon's place of no hope, only unrelenting and unending insane torture.


Heb 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire.

Thus the name!  ;)

His Peace and Wisdom to you Sister,

Joe
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hillsbororiver

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 09:34:20 PM »

TWO STUPID ARGUMENTS

I hate to waste precious space and time on stupid things, but I feel an urge to tell you about an argument and an analogy that Christian detractors of the Truth continually send to me. I often mention in my writings and in answer to e-mails, that Jesus Christ is THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD, and therefore, WILL SAVE THE WORLD. This should be axiomatic to even the youngest and newest minor in Christ, but sadly many Christian veterans of a half-century do not and cannot believe it.

One analogy that I have been given several times to prove that Christ can be the Saviour of the world, and yet NOT SAVE THE WORLD, goes like this: "When a fireman goes into a burning building to save trapped people, what happens if these trapped people refuse to be saved? Is the fireman not still a fireman simply because some do not wish to be saved?" Here we see the foolishness of the carnal mind at work desperately grasping for straws to support an unscriptural theory that Christ TRIES to save everyone (just like a fireman tries to save those trapped in a burning building), but is unable to save everyone because many REFUSE to be saved. Therefore Christ is STILL a Saviour even if He doesnít save everyone. See the logic in this analogy?

See the utter foolishness in this analogy:

Only an insane person would prefer to be burned in literal torturing flames of fire rather than to be saved by a fireman! I have been told by Christians many times that most of humanity will CHOOSE to be burned in the pain of literal hell fire for all ETERNITY, rather than to be saved by Jesus Christ! THEY LIE!

Any fireman worth his salt will save men, women, children, and even cats, dogs, and other pets, WHETHER THEY WANT TO BE SAVED OR NOT. Imagine a mother being told by a fireman that he left her little girl back in a burning building because the little girl didnít want to be rescued by a fireman?

Jesus Christ does not suffer the limitations of a fireman! Jesus Christ IS GOD! God does what He WILLS, and God wills to save all humanity (I Tim. 2:4 and Isaiah 46:9-11). Such stupid analogies themselves condemn the wicked and carnal minds of those who purpose them.

And I have a whole folder full of this inane argument from detractors of the Truth (I will paraphrase as different ones contain different aspects of the same argument): "Well if everyone is going to eventually be saved, as you teach Mr. Smith, then why should those of us who are following Christ now, not just go out and live it up? Why shouldnít we go out and fornicate, get drunk, steal, kill, or do anything we want? Why not just enjoy life and have a happy time? Why should we obey God or pray or go to Church, or be concerned for other people now if we are all going to be saved later anyway?"

This is not an isolated argumentóI get many such e-mails. Sometimes I just reply by saying: "Sir, it is not even necessary for me to answer your questionsóyou have answered them YOURSELF! You yourself have condemned your own darkened and unintelligent heart by the very stupid and foolish questions you ask. You prove to yourself by asking such things, that you do not really love your fellowman or God. You would PREFER to live a wicked life of selfish carnality and a continuous quest for physical pleasures of the flesh. You truly do not see the value of living a righteous, godly, and spiritual life. You condemn yourself as being unworthy of the Kingdom of God."

So here we have people who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and the goodness of God, who nonetheless, utterly condemn my teaching that Jesus Christ will SAVE THE WORLD, and often state that it is "I" who will be tortured in hell fire for all eternity for denying that there is such a place of eternal torture. Yet they themselves would prefer to live an ungodly life of sin and pleasure rather than to serve God from the heart out of love. I believe I have the mind of Christ when I say that all such attitudes will be judged in Godís consuming fire.

http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

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kweli

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 08:08:52 AM »


"By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; His HAND has FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT" (Job 26:13)
Good (scriptural) explanation of how God, the Holiest, the embodiment of Love & Peace, can as well be the LOF. This is why there is one tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They are not of the same purpose/intent, but are both of the same origin. Amen to that. Thanks Arcturus. And yes I agree with you Joe, God IS this lake of fire!

Seeking His Glory,
Kweli
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Sorin

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 12:27:51 AM »

"Well if everyone is going to eventually be saved, as you teach Mr. Smith, then why should those of us who are following Christ now, not just go out and live it up? Why shouldnít we go out and fornicate, get drunk, steal, kill, or do anything we want? Why not just enjoy life and have a happy time? Why should we obey God or pray or go to Church, or be concerned for other people now if we are all going to be saved later anyway?"


That's pretty much the same thing my older brother {who goes to church every sunday mind you} said to me when I said there is no hell.

And I said, well you obviously don't really want to follow Christ, and worship God, you're ONLY doing it to get out of hell. The second you
believed there is no hell, you wouldn't be able to wait to start sinning again. And I also said, then how do you explain the people who no longer believe in hell, and know there is no hell, yet they STILL want to obey God. Aren't they the one's that really love God, and don't just worship Him to get out of some fabled Christian hell?

Then he said, well judging by the way you live your life, the smoking, the drinking {and yes, when I get angry} the cussing- why should I believe you? You're obviously not a good example etc.. etc...

And he is right, but also wrong. Because, just because he and like the pastor, and our uncle who is a pastor he used as an example of those who clean their bowls on the outside, and may do some good works, like raising money for the poor, etc....
They still teach that Jesus is NOT The Savior of The World, because you can't be the Savior of the world, if you don't actually save the world. And they don't believe He will, they believe God will torture people with real fire for all eternity and they see no problem with it.
But hey, they're clean -cut Pentecostal Christians who would never drink a sip of an alcoholic beverage and always dress sharp when they go to church, oh and they wear suits and ties. So I guess they're telling the truth. I mean, look how 'clean' they are {on the outside}...



-Sorin



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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 01:48:32 AM »

Good one Sorin! :D

Yes Joe, God is the LOF either to wrath and indignation or to trials and tribulations. Both wrath and tribulation are from His Spirit but they result in two different outcomes. Trial and tribulations lead to change in the children of God and wrath and indignation to destruction of the children of disobedience. Those who perish shall not perish forever either. They too will be saved as by fire! ;)

Two different experiences from the SAME fire? I think so :D

Peace to you

Arcturus
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 06:56:32 AM by Arcturus »
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Heidi

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2008, 10:42:44 PM »

I hope it is OK to reply to this post as it was posted in Dec 2007?......I found it very interesting and maybe others will as well.

I have been led by the Spirit of God to this post, having read the LOF installments, I have been reminded yet again how humbling it is to know the truth and that the truth will set you free....I have also had family and friends say "why not live it up large now, drink as much as you want etc. etc......".  Whereas for me....I love God and feel humbled by it all and have a desire not to sin and as I walk in the spirit and grow by His grace become more like Christ Jesus everyday.


"Well if everyone is going to eventually be saved, as you teach Mr. Smith, then why should those of us who are following Christ now, not just go out and live it up? Why shouldnít we go out and fornicate, get drunk, steal, kill, or do anything we want? Why not just enjoy life and have a happy time? Why should we obey God or pray or go to Church, or be concerned for other people now if we are all going to be saved later anyway?"

This is not an isolated argumentóI get many such e-mails. Sometimes I just reply by saying: "Sir, it is not even necessary for me to answer your questionsóyou have answered them YOURSELF! You yourself have condemned your own darkened and unintelligent heart by the very stupid and foolish questions you ask. You prove to yourself by asking such things, that you do not really love your fellowman or God. You would PREFER to live a wicked life of selfish carnality and a continuous quest for physical pleasures of the flesh. You truly do not see the value of living a righteous, godly, and spiritual life. You condemn yourself as being unworthy of the Kingdom of God."

So here we have people who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and the goodness of God, who nonetheless, utterly condemn my teaching that Jesus Christ will SAVE THE WORLD, and often state that it is "I" who will be tortured in hell fire for all eternity for denying that there is such a place of eternal torture. Yet they themselves would prefer to live an ungodly life of sin and pleasure rather than to serve God from the heart out of love. I believe I have the mind of Christ when I say that all such attitudes will be judged in Godís consuming fire.

http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html



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Craig

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 08:45:34 AM »

Quote
.I have also had family and friends say "why not live it up large now, drink as much as you want etc. etc......".  Whereas for me....I love God and feel humbled by it all and have a desire not to sin and as I walk in the spirit and grow by His grace become more like Christ Jesus everyday.

Wow Heidi you are so right.  I have followed Christ all my life.  The old I, did not "live it up" because of the fear instilled by religion, now I don't "live it up" because of the love I have for my Father and not wanting to disappoint Him that loves every person in the world.

The old me, sinned and asked for forgiveness and mercy and hoped that my Father would not torture me for my sins, the new me sins and am disappointed that I fail my loving Father so much.  The old me was scared of death and where I would spend eternity, the new me looking forward to my physical death and the first or second resurrection to either rule with Christ or to be finally purged and cleansed of the awful beast within me.  I'm deserving of the second and it won't be fun, but either way I am in the hand of a loving God and he will perfect me.

Craig
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Chris R

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 08:53:33 AM »

Its sorta funny this thread was ressurected, as i was just reading the lake of fire series part one a few days ago.

For me those first months of reading Rays site melted about 500 lbs of ugly hate buried in my guts, It's easy to hate when you felt God had the same feeling toward mankind, But now...wow..what a difference, i dont have hate for anything anymore, gone...totally amazing...sure, we still have moments of anger, but nothing like i had years ago.

Gives a whole new meaning to a peace that passeth all understanding.

Peace

Chris R

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hillsbororiver

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 02:30:34 PM »

Hi Amrhrasach,

No, I haven't been presented with that particular bit of babylonian logic, this appears to be yet another word meaning that is changed so that fits their doctrines....

Grave = hell

Pit = hell

Sheol = hell

Gehenna = hell

Etc.


The word "work" in this verse means virtually the same thing in Greek as it does in English;


G2041
ἔργον
ergon
er'-gon
From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

Let's read this verse again;

1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

To me calling another person "my work" seems a bit presumptuous, every man, woman, child and every creature in heaven and earth is the "work" of God not man. We of ourselves do not have the power to choose Christ, it is He who does the choosing [John 15:16] and we have no influence (again of ourselves) in bringing anyone to Christ, certainly He uses us as examples and admonishes us to be ready to give an answer when asked but we are powerless to effect change in ourselves or anyone else, it is only through the work of His Spirit.

The work being spoken in 1Cor 3:15 is our lives, do we work things to glorify Him or ourselves, do we work to gain more wisdom, more of His Spirit or do we work to obtain worldly things such as money, vain glory, praise of others, etc.

Ray has written an excellent article in regard to "winning" souls for Christ, here it is;

http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm

Peace,

Joe

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Heidi

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2008, 05:14:28 AM »

But now...wow..what a difference, i dont have hate for anything anymore, gone...totally amazing

Hi there Chris R......I know exactly what you mean, and so would anyone else whom God has opened their eyes.....I really belief that this feeling....wow.....brings unity, because we are all experiencing being set free by His grace.  It falls exactly in with what Craig wrote..........

The old me, sinned and asked for forgiveness and mercy and hoped that my Father would not torture me for my sins, the new me sins and am disappointed that I fail my loving Father so much. 

AND....is it not amazing that we all had the same thread going....that is the working of the Holy Spirit in us  ;D

Thanks again Joe for your wonderful insight.

Love in Christ
Heidi
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aqrinc

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 01:09:39 AM »


Hi Joe,

Found this gem while mining in hilly countryside. It is very pertinent to my discussions all day today.

george. ;D

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mharrell08

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 07:26:36 AM »

Quote
.I have also had family and friends say "why not live it up large now, drink as much as you want etc. etc......".  Whereas for me....I love God and feel humbled by it all and have a desire not to sin and as I walk in the spirit and grow by His grace become more like Christ Jesus everyday.

Wow Heidi you are so right.  I have followed Christ all my life.  The old I, did not "live it up" because of the fear instilled by religion, now I don't "live it up" because of the love I have for my Father and not wanting to disappoint Him that loves every person in the world.

The old me, sinned and asked for forgiveness and mercy and hoped that my Father would not torture me for my sins, the new me sins and am disappointed that I fail my loving Father so much.  The old me was scared of death and where I would spend eternity, the new me looking forward to my physical death and the first or second resurrection to either rule with Christ or to be finally purged and cleansed of the awful beast within me.  I'm deserving of the second and it won't be fun, but either way I am in the hand of a loving God and he will perfect me.

Craig


Ditto Craig & Heidi, ditto....it's a totally different mindset that the Lord instills in us when He reveals Himself.

Thanks for bumping up George.  :)



Marques
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Terry

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 03:07:47 PM »

What a great thread i hadn't seen this one before

Hey George it took about 30 minutes before i got what you where mining for in the hills(Duh)

Hi Joe,

Found this gem while mining in hilly countryside. It is very pertinent to my discussions all day today.

george.


I thought you might be mining for gold and after it hit me i see you was mining for gold.

Terry
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Terry

aqrinc

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 04:45:00 PM »

What a great thread i hadn't seen this one before

Hey George it took about 30 minutes before i got what you where mining for in the hills(Duh)

Hi Joe,

Found this gem while mining in hilly countryside. It is very pertinent to my discussions all day today.

george.


I thought you might be mining for gold and after it hit me i see you was mining for gold.

Terry


Treasure chests more like it every time.

LOL ;D, george. 8)



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Marky Mark

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2009, 07:27:51 PM »

Not only are we our Fathers treasure,but we too seek our Lord, to mine the Spiritual treasures from the heavens above.


Ezra 5:17 Now therefore, if it seem good to the king, let there be search made in the king's treasure house, which is there at Babylon, whether it be so, that a decree was made of Cyrus the king to build this house of Elohim at Jerusalem, and let the king send his pleasure to us concerning this matter

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Ezra 7:20 And whatsoever more shall be needful for the house of thy Elohim, which thou shalt have occasion to bestow, bestow it out of the king's treasure house.

 Psalm 135:4 For YAH hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Proverbs 15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.

 

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

2Corinthians 4: 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.




Peace...Mark
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daywalker

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2009, 09:56:12 PM »


Hey Sorin,

Here's a great Scriptural passage to go along with your post:


Matthew 23:25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are cleansing the outside of the cup and the plate, yet inside they are brimming with rapacity and incontinence.
26 Blind Pharisee! Cleanse first the inside of the cup and the plate, that their outside also may be becoming clean!
27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are resembling the whitewashed sepulchers which outside, indeed, are appearing beautiful, yet inside they are crammed with the bones of the dead and all uncleanness.
28 Thus you, also, outside, indeed, are appearing to men to be just, yet inside you are distended with hypocrisy and lawlessness."--Concordant Literal New Testament



I too struggle much with the 'outside' stuff, but I know my 'inside' has become much cleaner and purer than it used to be; and slowly that inward purity is making its way outward and manifesting itself in the physical world.


Peace, Out

Daywalker  8)



"Well if everyone is going to eventually be saved, as you teach Mr. Smith, then why should those of us who are following Christ now, not just go out and live it up? Why shouldnít we go out and fornicate, get drunk, steal, kill, or do anything we want? Why not just enjoy life and have a happy time? Why should we obey God or pray or go to Church, or be concerned for other people now if we are all going to be saved later anyway?"


That's pretty much the same thing my older brother {who goes to church every sunday mind you} said to me when I said there is no hell.

And I said, well you obviously don't really want to follow Christ, and worship God, you're ONLY doing it to get out of hell. The second you
believed there is no hell, you wouldn't be able to wait to start sinning again. And I also said, then how do you explain the people who no longer believe in hell, and know there is no hell, yet they STILL want to obey God. Aren't they the one's that really love God, and don't just worship Him to get out of some fabled Christian hell?

Then he said, well judging by the way you live your life, the smoking, the drinking {and yes, when I get angry} the cussing- why should I believe you? You're obviously not a good example etc.. etc...

And he is right, but also wrong. Because, just because he and like the pastor, and our uncle who is a pastor he used as an example of those who clean their bowls on the outside, and may do some good works, like raising money for the poor, etc....
They still teach that Jesus is NOT The Savior of The World, because you can't be the Savior of the world, if you don't actually save the world. And they don't believe He will, they believe God will torture people with real fire for all eternity and they see no problem with it.
But hey, they're clean -cut Pentecostal Christians who would never drink a sip of an alcoholic beverage and always dress sharp when they go to church, oh and they wear suits and ties. So I guess they're telling the truth. I mean, look how 'clean' they are {on the outside}...



-Sorin




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brok54

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2009, 01:18:00 AM »

Mat 5:22 ...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (gehenna) fire.

Let me run this by y'all for feedback.  Something came to me out of the blue, so to speak, while I was driving down the freeway a couple of months ago.  I recalled an incident when I was in the Navy many years ago.  I was standing a night watch with one of my close friends.  I don't remember what sparked the incident, but I do recall that for some reason, I ended up calling this good friend of mine an a$$h@le (thou fool) in an extremely agitated and loud voice.  In my memory, I can almost see the sadness that came over his face.  And I can also recall how horrible I felt about it.  That horrible feeling that I "suffered" and that drove me to repent of my anger and ask him to forgive me, I now believe could have been, metaphorically speaking; "gehenna fire".
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: God Is Hell???
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2009, 02:11:30 AM »

I sure see it that way, brok54.  You just almost couldn't ask for a more direct correlation and example.  It's a beautiful thing when the Lord drags up these instances from our pasts to teach us real and valuable lessons now.  It really demonstrates that we are His workmanship.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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