Wine and strong drink

[eggi]

Hi all,

I recently found myself discussing alcohol consumption with someone. In my opinion it's not wrong to drink wine or alcohol, but to some it's just about the worst sin you can ever do.

I was told that since Jesus didn't drink wine or strong drink, we shouldn't either:

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (Luk 1:15 KJV)

That's fair enough, but then we have this:

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. (1Ti 5:23 KJV)

and:

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. (Rom 14:14 KJV)

If it offends someone when we drink alcohol, we shouldn't drink it:

But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. (Rom 14:15 KJV)

To he who is mature in the faith meat and drink is not a concern, but:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Rom 14:17 KJV)

Has Ray answered something about this subject?

God bless you,
Eirik

PS. I don't agree with getting drunk...

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Eirik,

That verse in Luke you quoted (or others have quoted to you) is actually speaking of John The Baptist, Jesus shows the contemptable hypocrisy of the Pharisees in regard to John's non consumption of wine and a very restrictive diet contrasted by Jesus and His casual take on these things which pass through our bodies.

Luk 7:33  For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

Luk 7:34  The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

I know what you mean about how with some folks and their religious traditions take great pride in what they eat or don't eat and what they drink or don't drink. My sister and brother in law have this down pat, even though they could not give chapter and verse from scripture for the doctrine they embrace they still have this belief that anyone who can enjoy an adult beverage is hopelessly lost and doomed to hell, but our Lord isn't as concerned about this as they are, He teaches that what comes out of one's mouth is what defiles a person, not what goes in.

Mar 7:13  Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mar 7:14  And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

Mar 7:15  There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Kat]

Eirik,

If you think about it, in John 2 Jesus turned the water to wine.  Do you really think He would have, through a miracle no less, gave all those people wine to drink if He did not approve of it ?  Of course Jesus approved of it !

Here is a email from Ray.

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#drinking -------------

As for drinking. No, the wine mentioned in Scripture was not weak like water. There are a dozen or more Scriptures that make reference to "drunkenness" and it is always condemned.
Here are a few:

"And take heed to yourselves  lest at any time your hearts be overcharged [weighed down] with surfeiting [carousing], and DRUNKENNESS, and care of this life, and so that day come upon you unaware" (Luke 21:34).

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and DRUNKENNESS, not in chambering [licentiousness] and wantonness [lewdness], not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and MAKE NO PROVISION FOR THE FLESH, TO FULFILL THE LUSTS THEREOF" (Rom. 13:13).

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulsions, wrath, strife, sedition's, herisies, envyings, murder, DRUNKENNESS, revelings, and such like of the which I tell you before as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD" (Rom. 5:19-21).

All these warnings being said, is there a proper use of alcohol? Yes there is. Jesus drank wine, as did all the Apostles. Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding in Cana. And surely as the host suggested, they did not save the best "grape juice" till last--it was WINE.

Wine and STRONGER drinks were permissible under the law of Moses:

"And you shall bestow that money for whatsoever your soul lusts after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for STRONG DRINK..." (Deut. 14:26).

Notice that even Paul (who sternly warned against "drunkenness"), that wine can be beneficial:

"Drink no longer water, but use A LITTLE wine [don't get DRUNK] for thy stomach's sake and your often [frequent] infirmities [sicknesses]" (I Tim. 5:23).

So there, briefly, is what the Scriptures say regarding wine and strong drink, but your situation will have to be evaluated by you. Ask God to guide you in ALL YOUR DECISIONS IN LIFE.


God be with you,
Ray

[Chris R]

Personally I dont drink alcohol during the year, but sometimes during the holidays, i have some spiked soda.

It's no big deal to me, but to some it can trigger a desire that is hard to shake.

I have been drunk, cant say i liked the up-chucking part of it.

Dont have to go through THAT too many times to quench my desire to drink........... yuk.


Chris R

[musicman]

I've started drinking red wine every night.  Why?  Not because I like it.  Actually, it tastes nasty to me.  But it has real health benefits.  Not to mention, the light buzz helps me go to sleep.  Personally, I don't think that I can possibly drink enough alcohol to get really drunk.  I just don't like it.

[Sorin]

That was a great answer Joe; as were the rest of the responses. Is it wrong that I get really irritated when people, due to their stupid traditions or religions, or whatever, not only refuse to drink alcoholic beverages, but also have a problem with those that do. And refuse to acknowledge the fact that even Jesus {whom they supposedly worship} drank wine and alcoholic drinks.

It's like, duude, the Jews refuse to eat pork, yet you do, so just shut up. Your refusal to drink, isn't any better, nor does it make any more sense than the Jews' refusal to eat pork.

I apologize for my little rant, but organized religion just really irritates me.

Peace,

Sorin

[Deborah-Leigh]

The last supper wasn't without wine! 

I too do not like the taste of wine either although the effect is quite medicinal I know.

We have seen the effect of what alcoholism can do, not from direct experience   but on close enough members of our family who have thankfully now become sober to the dangers of over consumption.

A LITTLE wine for thy stomachs sake is not a lot of wine to douse your woes and for the unconscious moment seem to drown your sorrows which can become addictive quite easily  the alcohol that is, not the sorrows

Peace to you

Arcturus

[jerreye]

Interesting post...

Question: What exactly does it mean to "be DRUNK"? Does drunkenness mean that you are "hammered" to the point of not knowing what your doing? It is the point where you start to stumble over your own feet or start huggin the toilet? Is it at the point when you start to slur your words? Quite frankly, I like to have a little "strong drink" in my diet coke once in a while while after a long week. I certainly feel a moderate "buzz" effect that really calms me down and relaxes me. I certainly don't get to any point of falling over, slurring my words or forgetting my name. Perhaps I shouldn't even get to the point of "feeling a moderate buzz" (??). Any thoughts?

[little rock]

as the proverb goes 'wine is a mocker and beer is a brawler"so if you've had enough to cause either of these effects i'd say you've over done it.a feeling of relaxation sounds fine as long as one does not find it possible to relax unless drinking,then it is the flesh being satisfied and i'm sure God will show you .if you feel guilty then you must seek Him for he is faithful and show you whats right for you.i have heard of  strongholds of alcoholism running in families so check out your history.may the Lord shine His face upon you as you seek his will.

[ciy]

Don't forget that the words of the scriptures are "spirit".  The spiritual meaning is much more important than the physical meaning.

CIY

[jackson]

Prov. 31:4 and 5   "It is not for kings, O Lemuel- not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights."

Many promising characters of lifes story have been ruined by the love of wine and every one should avoid these evils.  I'm not saying any form of alcohol is evil but the consequences of abuse can be disasterous.  Every creature of God is good, and wine, though abused, has its use.

Prov. 31:6 and 7   "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more."

Consideration must be given to those dejected souls to whom God has not found favor with yet.  Wine can be used for want or medicine.  As for Gods choosen however, they should more carefully temperate than others.  After all, what good is a "king" if his decrees are not wise (Prov. 20:1).  Now I'm not saying its wrong to have a drink but temperance should be the course.  We are not responsible solely for ourselves.

Jackson

[eggi]

Thank you everyone,

Great answers to my question, and food (and drink?) for thought!
God bless you all, brothers and sisters!

Eirik

[jerreye]

Thanks, Little Rock. I totally agree with you. I do not have any history of alchohol abuse in my family history to think of. Although two of my siblings are addicted to hard drugs

I believe ANYTHING in excess is wrong. I believe in "moderation in all things" (unless of course it is for evil intentions).

God Bless.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi All,

I can't dispute anything here, we are free from the bondage of other people's doctrines and of course we should be "temperate in all things." Most of us are mature enough to discern whether we are over indulging or being careless, sometimes we may not give a **** but the reality is we know within ourselves if we are crossing the line, the opinions of others should not sway us unless the scriptural witnesses are indisputable.

If we ignore or justify activities that are feeding the beast within we can look forward to a grand tour of The Lake Of Fire where this will be removed, the absolutely great part of this equation is that Christ will not lose any of us, whether we are of the elect or not our ultimate destiny is assured! 

What a beautiful plan He has for us, whether we realize it now, or not. 

His Peace to you,

Joe

P.S. Hey there Little Rock, it is great to see you, I have appreciated your observations in the past and hope you add some more soon. 

[Duane]

I always say "I make enough mistakes in my "RIGHT MIND" so I don't need to add alcohol!  LOL

[longhorn]

My tummy hurts.  Where'd I put that bottle, never mind............found it.

Longhorn

[Astrapho]

Great responses. "Don't feed the beast!" Seems to be the golden rule here.

(All the few times I drank wine and beer (underage drinking?! nay, just a sip), I absolutely hated it and washed my mouth out thrice (and still couldn't get the taste out). I cannot comprehend your minds. @_@)

[Joel]

If it were left up to the hardcore PROHIBITIONIST, the stories of Noah and Lot, could be missing from the scriptures.
Joel

[Cypress]

I enjoyed reading these responses. I pretty much feel like you all. I don't tend to drink myself, but I'm not opposed to a glass of wine or a beer every once in a blue moon. When I went to Germany, all they had was beer. I was so disgusted with beer, I pretty much went 2 years without having any lol. It's funny how drinking is also a cultural experience. I've been to Europe twice and have visited several countries, and the way of life over there is so different. A lot of regions big on beers, wines, etc. Not to mention the alcohol content in a lot of those drinks is double what it is here.

[Linny]

Just another thing I am thankful to not be under the law about.
I rarely have a drink, don't drink in front of my kids, never drink to excess, and don't drink out of a need to relax or medicate myself. I drink something on occasion because I like the taste.