When was Adam created???

[indianabob]

Dave,
Topic: When was Adam created.

Response from Indiana Bob re: humans being perfect in intelligence and physical abilities.

Hi
Reply #12
Quote from Indianabob:
In fact since our ancestors were closer to the original, perfectly created duo, Adam and Eve, they had a much better chance of producing intelligent children than we do today.
= = =
>I'm not so sure that that is true although tradition states that they were perfect. Ray teaches that the scriptures suggest  >that they were far from perfection , hence their ability to sin.

>With regards to Adam's creation we know not how long the sixth day actually lasted. Perhaps mankind was already 
>being formed before Adam (I'm not talking apes here) during that sixth day,and that Adam was a point along the way to
>mankind being formed into the image of God.
>Just pondering

>Dave
= = = =

Friend Dave:  Two points if I may explain. 
1. I was speaking of physical perfection, good bodies and good minds.  Adams descendants were in much better shape and closer to Adam's created physical perfection  than any of us are today, scientist included. God's first created humans had perfect brains, had language, had the perfect teacher in whatever skills were programmed into their minds.
Would you agree?
Therefore they could have devised ways to migrate to other continents or find North or invent ships. 
All of these attributes are separate from righteousness or spiritual perfection.

2. I don't believe at this time, that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect.  The absence of sin just means that their conscious or volitional mind was un-polluted with lust, greed etc.  Perfection or completeness on the other hand has to be attained over time or given by God through God's miraculous intervention.

2a.  Regarding Eve's sin, (reply to Arcturus #15) both Eve and Adam were in the midst of paradise and the option to choose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was before them both.  Each of them could decide whether to follow God's directives or to decide for themselves whether to choose to do "what seemed good to them".  People do the same today, but we need to keep in mind that God set them up to yield to temptation.  God made them weak and unable to resist what they lusted for, so that God could teach them about evil.  (moderators please check my understanding here)  Also please recall that Adam was first, Adam was instructed directly by God.  Eve was created second and perhaps was dependent upon Adam for her instruction.  So, Adam was supposed to watch over Eve and should have cautioned her since Adam knew better and just stood by and let Eve continue to lust and then to sin.

God puts the blame where it belongs fellows, on the leadership:  Although, we do now understand that both of them were created with those weaknesses.  It was after all God's intent from the beginning that they and we learn about evil by living with it.

see James 1:13-15  Lusting leads to sin, but it is a process and as you said we don't know how long Eve or Adam for that matter had been lusting, had wanted to make their own rules (eat of that tree)  It may have all happened in one year.  They were apparently pretty busy discovering things about themselves, the animals and their beautiful environment, but it wouldn't have been long until their curiosity was piqued and they wanted to try something new.

Regarding Ezek 18:20 the soul that sins and your comment below:

>"However it seems that they only could know good and evil after they had partaken of the very forbidden thing that
>would give them that knowledge (as well as kill them) which seems a bit of a paradox in itself."
>cheers

Bob writes:  It is good to note that God is sovereign and that God planned all of our tests and experiences from the beginning.  God placed the 'tree of good and evil" directly in the center where they could not miss it.
Therefore, God made us to need to learn about and deal with evil.  Life for Adam and Eve was only good at first, because they didn't know the difference.  Every experience gave them joy. there was no pain or regret.
If God's son needed to learn by what he suffered, so must all of mankind.  How else shall we be LIKE Jesus?

End of Bob's remarks.
= = = =
>Hi Arcturus reply #15

Quote
>Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before... BEFORE she actually ate of the
>forbidden fruit.
>You have answered a question that I have also been asking myself  'did Adam and Eve sin before they ate from the
>tree of knowledge of good and evil ' ?

>However for all we know Eve might have been lusting after that tree perhaps for years before she partook of it. if so, 
>why didn't she die at that point ?
>I think it says in Ezekiel 'the soul that sins shall surely die' , the wages of sin etc.

>However it seems that they only could know good and evil after they had partaken of the very forbidden thing that 
>would give them that knowledge (as well as kill them) which seems a bit of a paradox in itself.
>cheers
>Dave

[eggi]

This turns out to be a wonderful thread. Right now we are sort of "in the wilderness" on this topic, but Lord willing, we will learn some wonderful truths on it next year. Speaking of, when is the conference?

Patience...

God bless you,
Eirik

PS. Dave, I think Mark was speaking of spiritual death versus physical death, and the aspect of timing. Since Adam was made flesh, he was destined to die, but only when they ate of the fruit did they become aware of the fact that they were dying.

---and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.' (Gen 2:17 YLT)

They did not surely die physically in the day when they ate of the fruit, at least not in a twenty-four hour day. Perhaps it was talking about a day (an age)? In this age all flesh will surely die...

This is all rambling from my part. I was typing as I was thinking... Kind of the way I think about things when I don't know for sure.

Again, God bless you,

Eirik

[chav]

Hi
Thanks for your answers and patience I think I'm a little clearer now. It would be great one day to meet some of you face to face to discuss these things in more detail.

Dave

[indianabob]

Hey Dave,

I'm retired and free to travel, I think.
Just send the round trip air plane tickets and I will see if my wife will allow me to visit you.
I suppose Virgin Atlantic has a seat available.
How far from Heathrow Airfield is your home?

Regards. Bob


Just kidding, I'm too young to travel alone.

[Ray-Ray]

hello everyone ,I joined this site in march of this year ,so as everyone can see this is my first post. so i"m jumping in with both feet ,I feel like in gen.1:1 the two key word,s there are HEAVEN an EARTH ? does anybody see where I could be going with this ? ya,ll be easy on me now lol  later Ray-Ray

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Ray-Ray

Welcome to the Forum. I noticed you joined us in March when your Avatar name appeared in the Forum as a new member. I am happy you have jumped in!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[eggi]

Hi Ray-Ray,

I'm not sure where you are going with that, but I personally like Young's Literal translation of that verse:

In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth-- the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. (Gen 1:1-3 YLT)

So we could think that the earth was waste and void in the beginning of the preparing, the earth wasn't created in a finished state. Young's renders the hebrew word bara (H1254) as "preparing". And when God had finished preparing the earth, He made it rain, and then things really got started:

And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making. These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens; and no shrub of the field is yet in the earth, and no herb of the field yet sprouteth, for Jehovah God hath not rained upon the earth, and a man there is not to serve the ground. (Gen 2:3-5 YLT)

So, seeing that there was no shrub of the field, and no herb of the field on the seventh day, are we to believe that there were no animals either? They would need something to eat, in those days after they were created, right? Or maybe they were only prepared? Like an idea?

Yet another "fun fact" which adds to the confusion in my mind...



God bless you,
Eirik

[Ray-Ray]

I was thinking more on the line of symbols here, HEAVEN=JESUS, EARTH =MANKIND ,man was without form and void=not knowing the love of GOD at that time , I,m thinking the days here do not represent 24 hr,s as one day is as a thousand years,an a thousand years is as one day which I believe means completiness, so saying all of this i believe the world could be as old as the scientist claim. so in the scriptures where GOD made this, made that, an this was a day, which means GOD completed that project,probably took year,s between the day,s .what seem,s to help me understand GOD,S word now ,through Ray,s teaching ,I made me a chart with symbols on mankind , and JESUS ,an listed under each one what the bible refers to each as ,thank you JESUS! until the next time peace, Ray-Ray

[hillsbororiver]

Gen 1:13  And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Hello Ray-Ray

Isn't it interesting that the "lights in the firmament" (visible arch of the sky) were not created until the third day? Was the Light that appeared on Day one Christ Himself? This creation in Gen 1:14 is when the physical entities to measure time were created and also to provide physical sustenance or energy to life on earth.

I am looking forward to the next Nashville Conference when I am sure Genesis will be presented in an entirely different "light" than we have been accustomed to.

By the way how was your motorcycle ride back home after Mobile? I enjoyed our fellowship together there in between the presentations by Ray, it was a great lunch we shared with Patrick on Saturday, I enjoyed breaking bread with a couple of biker enthusiasts such as you two. I hope to see you in Nashville next year.

Peace Brother,

Joe
 

[Ray-Ray]

Hi Joe, enjoyed the fellowship to, good to put faces with names lol , that was my first conf. enjoyed it very much, not wishing my life away but wish nash, conf. was next week ,excitied to see if some of my thinking is linked into Ray's study on genesis. I tell you something that has me thinking an digging ,In the beginning GOD created the (heaven) an verse 3 (light) then later GOD says (heavens) an (lights) now this is some heavy stuff, but I love it , the bible as covers as if it was complete , Joe we will never learn all this before JESUS comes back lol . GOD'S word is so good  I,m glad there is no end to it. about my ride home on the bike, you sure to get to spend a lot of time with GOD , no radio, no talking, just a lot of thinking, hope to see you next year in nashville an a lot,s of other people, peace bro. Ray-Ray   

[kumquatsrus]

If you guys are interested, here are some sites that will provide some eye opening information regarding the more credible estimated age of the Earth and tons more useful knowledge.  I believe they only further validate the truth of the Scriptures.  Enjoy!

*not allowed* (wealth of archaelogical and scientific information)

*not allowed* (archaelogist website with various e-books...I got one and it is extremely fascinating.)

-Sorry about posting links on the wrong board, you can PM me if you want the links.

[Patrick]

about my ride home on the bike, you sure to get to spend a lot of time with GOD , no radio, no talking, just a lot of thinking
Ray-Ray   

Amen, Ray-Ray.
I don't ride on the street anymore, but I experience the same when I'm riding in the desert or racing on the track.