> General Discussions

Were Paul, Peter and James Perfect?

<< < (2/3) > >>

M_Oliver:
I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm convinced that Romans 7 tells a WHOLE lot more than the people who are inspired to believe they are chosen care to admit.

7:14 says it all.  The following verses are Spiritual matches to me.

To answer your subject line, NO THEY WERE NOT.  And noone will ever convince me that they were.  In light of Ray's recent understanding of Genesis I think the plan of God is going to play out a WHOLE LOT longer than any of us have previously thought.  God is taking His time with His creation.  I think that means we never shed the carnality while we live in this tent.  We UNDERSTAND that we are supposed to {if chosen} but we never completely do it.

I remember quite awhile back Ray saying that as he grew in Christ certain things{sinful things}became less and less important to him.  I believe that comes with age.  Secular statistics show crime goes down with age{not saying Ray was a criminal, but you know what I mean}.  In other words we get OLDER AND WISER.  We don't shed carnality per se, DO WE?  God tells me at this moment in time that we do not escape Romans 7 while we are in this eon.

Got evidence to the contrary??

 

sonofone:
Very interesting topic Joe.I have thought about this as well. I think we have to look at it in relative terms.In their day.I'm reminded of the sorcerer that wanted to buy the gift of laying on of hands.I suppose on one level they were like rock stars.Ray mentions how much we fail to see or hear about the crowds that routinely followed Jesus.Three thousand people added to their number after one message seems to follow this pattern.

Were they perfect,not according to the record of Paul.He rebuked Peter,and spoke unfavorably of Mark who decided to leave them on one journey.

Paul also insisted that he did not consider himself to have already attained or was made perfect.I think in todays time they would put most of us to shame in terms of their dedication and committment to God.

M_Oliver:

--- Quote from: Chris R on December 12, 2007, 05:18:46 AM ---Surely Paul did not speak to his own vanity when he said; Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.[1Cor 11:1]

 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

Peace

Chris R
--- End quote ---

Good point Chris.  But you know as I know that the other part of NOW I PRAY is IF IT IS YOUR WILL.  So if it wasn't God's will you know the rest.  I'm just paying attention to the words :).

hillsbororiver:
Thank you all for your replies, as always they are very much appreciated.

This was a rhetorical question or should I say rhetorical questions. Yes, I know these men were not perfect, they were certainly more spiritually mature than I, especially by the time they were writing their gospels, epistles and letters. But they had to learn, grow in wisdom (not only knowledge, there is a difference), develop patience, endure trials and tribulations and no doubt more than a few disappointments. I am sure they also suffered scorners and mockers often from family and former friends, in some circles they were treated like rock stars no doubt but that has it's pitfalls and can be a millstone around the neck as well. Expectations would be high and perhaps they did not meet the criteria some people had of what a Prophet or Apostle should look like, sound like, dress like, etc.

Actually I do not think people are all that different now than they were then, sure we live in a totally different world as far as technology goes but the basics are still pretty much the same, eat, drink, to love and be loved, provide for family, rejoice over births, mourn over deaths, etc. There certainly were less distractions in their day, but the basic and most important things of life do not come off of the assembly line or beamed through TV sets or computer monitors.

What I was thinking was how many people who where at first enthralled with and thankful for the Good News they preached and taught but as soon as they were given an answer or two they did not agree with or were challenged by one of these men in regard to their own beliefs they turned their back and walked away, physically and mentally, content to be with others who pat them on the back and offer not Godly Wisdom and/or admonishment but vain praise from men. Would many of us have adhered to, studied, and lived the Words they preached or would they have been a flavor of the day, a fad to eventually be tossed aside by most who had heard them?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 

     

Chris R:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on December 12, 2007, 08:02:45 PM --- Would many of us have adhered to, studied, and lived the Words they preached or would they have been a flavor of the day, a fad to eventually be tossed aside by most who had heard them?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe       

--- End quote ---

Hi Joe,

M_Oliver said it the best, It would be Gods will whether or not Some perceived this message, or walked away from it. Even so, many are called, few are chosen. We just never know what the "morrow" will bring.

Peace

Chris R

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page