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The Babylonian payroll

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Deborah-Leigh:
I have been thinking about this scripture.

John 15 : 27 But you also will testify and be My witnesses, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Ray says we should pay attention to the words.

In the above Scripture I can see that Jesus was speaking to His Disciples to the exclusion of Judas Iscariot who had left the room.

I do not know what Jesus meant by saying that His Disciples had been with Him from the beginning. They were not with Him during their lives and only after Jesus had commissioned them to "Come. Follow Me" were they WITH HIM. Was this the beginning for His Disciples and is it the same for us too? I think it is.


From The Lake of Fire - Part XIV

The Beast Within

http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html

Quote:

Paul wasn’t telling the unbelieving world that "ye are yet carnal." Nor was Jesus telling the world that they had "left the first love." No, Paul and Jesus are both telling THE CHURCH that they are "yet carnal and have left their first love"! In other words, AFTER coming into a church, AFTER they have accepted Christ, AFTER they have pursued their walk with God, AFTER they have built a spiritual house upon the sand, AFTER they have become indoctrinated with the commandments of men and the traditions of men, can one fall away and be in a position to actually spiritually SEE THE BEAST WITHIN! SEE the man of sin and the son of perdition. See your carnal-minded, God hating, SINS. You and I and all who have be enlightened by God’s word and our own failures in life, can surely see that we are all spiritually, WILD BEASTS.
Unquote.

I believe that Peter's faith did not fail because Jesus  prayed to the Father to preserve the faith in Peter and permit him to be converted and then go on to strengthen his brethren. Both Peter and Judas, I believe, were sifted by Satan but Peter survived and Judas self destructed.

The Disciples did not have any clue what Jesus was teaching when they were following him physically. Do we have any greater clue when we are in physical Babylon? No.

After Jesus was crucified the Disciples were frightened and in despair and fear. As we are leaving  Babylon do we not also feel like we have lost Jesus or that He has died to us and we have nowhere to turn or go as we feel lost and abandoned? Then once Jesus makes Himself visible to us to let us know He is alive OUTSIDE of Babylon, then we can wait for His Spirit to reveal His Truth. 

Like the Disciples, we can know Jesus is alive  to us in Spirit and in Truth unless we make a pact with Babylonian leaders to get onto their pay roll like Judas Iscariot did. The pay roll does not have to be money either. It can be any feel good justification for staying there.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

dewey:
hey arc, i beleve that you really do know what Jesus was saying .   when he said from the beginning. i belive he was not talking about yester day . we were all with him way back yonder; as the foundation was being laid . I belive judas did exactly what he was suposed to do . ask your self did he have free will? there is your answer. dont be hard on judas; he is our brother, and will be saved just like you and I. in the name of Jesus Christ dewey and paula love all people . dewey

Little Joe:
Good post Arcturus!  I must admit I got "warm fuzzies" at times when I was in Babylon, but there wasn't any substance to it, and I always felt like an outsider, and somewhat inferior.

I think there is a lot of seed being planted out there by well meaning Christian crusaders, but converts aren't hardly given any chance before they are guided to fallow ground.    And there is a lot of it out there - in books, local churches, Christian radio, TV. etc.  I think I've seen it all, and I could go on and on!

Thank God Christ can be better found outside all of that!!   ;D

His Peace,

Little Joe

Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Dewy

Just a few thoughts...

I did not mean to throw stones at Judas. Of course Judas was in the Plan of God. For me as I see it, the weak spiritual condition of Judas was acted out in betrayal and this resulted in the self destruction of Judas which is a lesson to all of us. The stronger spiritual condition of Peter who denied knowing Jesus, to save himself rather than to betray Christ, resulted in deep contrition.

It was Jesus who prayed for Peter and it was Jesus to commanded Judas to go and do quickly what he had to do. Neither Peter or Judas had the power to be or do anything other than what they ultimately did do. I believe this shows the profile of spiritual weakness through their experiences recorded for us to learn from and recognise.

As for your comment quote :
--- Quote ---we were all with him way back yonder; as the foundation was being laid .
--- End quote ---
I do not assume that I was in existence "as the foundation was being laid." I have to say if God asked me what he asked Job I would hope to respond like Job did. God asked Job quote Job 38:4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Declare to Me, if you have and know understanding. God  told Satan that Job was HIS (God's) Servant and that there was none like him on the earth and that he was blameless and upright and who reverently feared God and abstained from and shunned all evil. I would hope to answer as this most amazing man Job did and his reply was Job 42 : 2 I know that You (God) can do all things, and that no thought or purpose of Yours can be restrained or thwarted. 5. I have heard of you by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees you. 6 Wherefore I abor myself and repent in dust and ashes.

I think that when the light of God shines on us it reveals that we are as Job said quote : Job 40 : 4 Behold, I am of small account and vile!

Jesus said that without Him we can do nothing. I do not suppose that this means that I was in existence with Christ from the foundations of the earth because just looking at the list of questions God asked Job, I realise that I too can not answer them. It might have been in God's MIND to create me but I was not yet created and I am not yet completed in His image. This is unlike Christ who was already with God in the beginning.

John 1 : 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 3 All things were made and came into existence through Him...

I came into existence on the 17th June 1957 and I am still a work in progress. I did not exist before then except I was always in the Plan of God to exist. Like a parent who decides to have children. When a parent decides to have children it does not mean that they already exist from that point on. The Plan exists but the children come into existence later.

What is wonderful is that the Plan of God will make me into the image of His Son and all will know that He is the First Son of God.

Little Joe

I am glad you are out!

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)

dewey:
hi arcturus
i was not going to reply,but my thoughts/spirit have won over.please believe that this is not an attack on you just a loving conversation, maybe i can learn something. I have been thinking about JN15:27  pastor smith says we should pay att to the words,i agree.I look at it like this,in JN15:27  BUT YOU WILL TESTIFY AND BE MY WITNESSES BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING. we can see that physical human beings were not with Jesus in the beginning, ah but how about the spirit? just maybe Jesus knew them before they were physical.he knew just the rite places to go to find them,he new perfectly well which one to say follow me . not one turned him down,or questioned him , why? prearranged,done deal . I can not see as some would have me belive that God would make spirits daily as he needs them. if any one believes the scripture that says, THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH , does that mean what it says or is that a parable ? here is some of my thinking on that subject  ,for instance where Jesus says {JN 17:12} WHILE I WAS WITH THEM I PROTECTED THEM AND KEEP THEM SAFE BY THAT NAME THAT YOU GAVE , NONE HAS BEEN LOST,EXCEPT THE ONE DOOMED TO DESTRUCTION,and here is the proof that the begining was not yesterday, SO THAT SCRIPTURE WOULD BE FULFILLED. this tells me that God inspired a prophet,  to write a long time ago about  judas.  As far as you quoting {Job38:4} WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH? DECLARE TO ME YOU HAVE UNDERSTANDING. then you quote {Job42:2} that is not an answer to Gods question. and now here is where i have a real problem with {Job42:5} I HAVE HEARD OF YOU BY THE HEARING OF THE EAR , now here is my problem with this.JOB SAYS BUT NOW MY EYE SEES YOU.  do we believe what Jesus said ,NO ONE HAS SEEN THE FATHER EXCEPT THE SON, who do we believe Jesus or Job?                                                                                                 
   this has very little to do with your post ,i just thought i would throw this in . {Ro7:7}thru
{Ro7:25} makes a sinner like me understand some of the things i do that i do not want to do. but when i can not carry the cross as Jesus did,my first thought is this ,Jesus said what ever you ask of the father in my name, you know the rest of it.so with that said i say in your holy sons name Jesus Christ Father please forgive me for i have sinned , and my faith tells me that i am clean again.

Dewey and Paula love all people

Dewey

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