> General Discussions
The Babylonian payroll
musicman:
Hey Dewey. I believe Christ here. No one has seen the Father except the son. So Job saw God in some manner. Wasn't God the Father though. It was God of the OT. In other words, it was Christ. Ray has some to say on this matter.
Kat:
Hi Dewey,
--- Quote ---JN15:27 BUT YOU WILL TESTIFY AND BE MY WITNESSES BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING. we can see that physical human beings were not with Jesus in the beginning, ah but how about the spirit?
--- End quote ---
I was trying to understand what you were saying, in your post you indicate that maybe we existed before we were born?
This is not what Ray teaches. Here is a segment of an email where he states Adam do not exist before he was created. So neither would any human exist before they were born.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4544.0.html ------------
COMMENT: Once we are born into the human family, we never go out of existence. Before Adam's creation, he DID NOT EXIST, but after his death, he still DID EXIST, albeit in the spirit that God preserved in His keeping just as He does for all that die. They cease to have conscious life, but they most assuredly "exist," else their life was of no value, and nothing would be carried over from this life into the next.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as who Job was talking to in Job 42:5, it would be the same person that spoke throughout the whole Old Testament, Jehovah - Jesus Christ.
Here is an email from Ray that explains this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2364.0.html -------
Dear James:
People often fail to understand even the physical aspects of the Scriptures simply because they do not follow or believe the principles and declarations in the Scriptures. What good does it do to argue all the Scriptures which speak of the hair, head, eyes, ears, face, mouth, arms, hands, feet, etc., "of the LORD," and then be totally ignorant of Who the "LORD" really is, and who the FATHER really is?
Is the LORD [Jehovah] of the Old Testament the God and Father of Jesus Christ? Absolutely NOT.
Notice what Jesus said concerning His God and His Father: "...NO MAN knows the the Son, but the Father, NEITHER knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will REVEAL HIM" (Matt. 11:27 & Luke 10:22). Now then, with that in mind: "NO MAN has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, HE has declared [unfoled or interpreted] Him" (John 1:18). Did Jesus lie? Did Moses indeed see "God the FATHER?" Not according to the Scriptures: not according to Jesus His Son. Did the Apostles know anything about the Father of Jesus? "Philip said unto Him, Lord show US [all of us] the Father, and it suffices US" (John 14:08).
The "LORD--Elohim/Jehovah/God" of the Old Testament was Jesus Christ, not Jesus' Father. And God the Father is SPIRIT (John 4:24), and INVISIBLE (Col. 1:15).
God is SPIRIT (John 4:24)
God is INVISIBLE (Col. 1:15)
No man has seen God (John 1:18)
No man ever heard God or seen His shape [Gk: 'nor a perception of Him have you seen]" (John 5:37)
Jesus came out from God (Rev. 2:14; John 8:42; 16:28; 17:5, 8, 24, Col. 1:13; etc.)
Jesus is THE LORD/Jehovah of the Old Testament (John 8:58; I Cor. 10;4; etc.)
Jesus IS A MAN (I Thes. 2:15).
God is NOT A MAN (Num. 23:19).
Etc., etc., etc.
The above Scriptures don't contradict any Scriptures. The above arguments of your friend contradict hundreds of Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Dewy
Thank you for your response.
I looked up the Scripture you referred to. For me, Jesus was not a sinner so there is nothing like sin that I can profess to be of, in or like Jesus. The Name Jesus Christ or mouthing or verbalising "In the Name of Jesus Christ" for me is not a formula for God's approval or God's agreement to give me anything. In the Name of Jesus Christ means for me to carry the cross as He did and to suffer as He did and to approach God as He did which was Thy Will Be Done, as Jesus Christ said. This is rather different to saying my will be done, You do it and in the Name of Jesus Christ You have to! I believe this attitude expresses the law of the sin. The Law of God, motivates that God is to be served with the mind and heart and that it is God Who will achieve in all people the success of this Plan.
You said you thew in Rom 7:25 saying it had nothing to do with my post. On the contrary! :) Paul observes.Romans 7 : 24 Unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! (Sounds like Job :D) Who will release and deliver me from the shackles of this body of death?25 I Thank God! HE will! through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life. If we follow HIS Ways, HIS Truth and HIS Life, then we are walking in His Name.
I too do not communicate this to you with any personal vendeta or grievance to you personally either Dewy.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
CEO:
Dear Arc and Dewey
I believe the beginning referred to here is of Jesus' earthly ministry of which his audience, the apostles observed and remembered.
Dewey, Eby and his law of circularity agree with your here before birth theory,we don't.
Imagine being told by Jesus you (we) will bear witness!!! and knowing what the rest of your life you will be doing!
askseeknock Charles O
CEO:
Dear Arcturus
PS Jesus prayed for Satan to 'get behind me' with Peter, not so with Judas
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version