> General Discussions

the garden scene

(1/4) > >>

dave:
I have just finished the Mobile 2006 My Fathers Will transcript;
I like it and believe that much can be received much from the teach-
ing. What was said about Gen 1:26 may have cleared up the long asked question of where did Cain's wife come from. You wrote that "Let us make man(humanity)..well there it is she was in that humanity and then God went to work..preparing the man(Adam?)
I am not trying to be out of line, thats what I received from it. the Lord has revealed sometime ago the duality in God. El Shaddai is the
"breasted one" not breath. And the "rib" the Lord has been dealing with me on that as well and the "chamber" out of all the examples is probably the best, the rib-chamber being the womb; that being removed could possibly cause the "limp." The teaching is sound, no place have I read or heard any thing close to what you have said and yours at least is comprehendable. But I did have my problems; I do agree that the 24 hour days are out and the true amount is up for debate. This thing about Adam seeing  woman for the first time; I dont feel that Adam or the Lord God had the exhausting thoughts of what to do about a helpmeet. I believe the words I suggest or possibly could have been used to tell the rest of the story. First, Adam did not know what you shall "be dying" meant...nobody had died yet. And the Lord God did only command the man not to eat, no where are we told or shown where or if he told the woman..she was on her own. And the dramatic thing with Adam..I will follow this woman anywhere even to dying? They or he did not know what that was dying. But the real thing that jumped out at me was the "non scriptural phrase"...THE BRIDE OF CHRIST....now after reading and listening to you,and I will continue you are teaching good stuff that helps, but for Ray to say that well..Ive been looking for years to find that scripture. I spent about my 5 first years in bible study trying to find.."God helps those who help themselves." but you have givin me much to study, ponder, and reevaluate. I know full well there will be much criticism to what I have said, but I am learning still and i might add I hope you are as well. Ive been walking this walk long enough to know that just because the truth of the scriptures may be revealed to a person and those revelations such as "hell" and "everlasting", "tithing", "trinity", and the insight to understanding the parables, is not just given so that men will follow "YOU" as the "THE" and the last word, I believe it is "in part" that the body learns and grows in Christ who is the head. My prayer is the Lord continue to reveal His truths to those few He is calling out. Bless you Bros. and Sisters.

Kat:

Hi Micah,

If you are going to critique Ray teaching, you should send an email to him about that.
This one thing that you said.


--- Quote --- But the real thing that jumped out at me was the "non scriptural phrase"...THE BRIDE OF CHRIST....now after reading and listening to you,and I will continue you are teaching good stuff that helps, but for Ray to say that well..Ive been looking for years to find that scripture.
--- End quote ---

Here is the section of the transcript you are referring to.
This is the relationship we're going to have with God.  Christ refers to the church as the Bride of Christ. 
The bride is going to be all decorated, by that we mean, made spotless and sure and clean, character wise.  A fitting Bride for the creator of the universe.


I do not see where Ray was quoting Scripture with that statement.  But there is certainly many places in Rev. that referrs to the bride.  This one Scripture in particular states "the bride, the Lamb's wife."  I think that has the exact same meaning, but maybe worded differently.

Rev 21:9  And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Here is a Scripture where John the Baptist is speaking of Christ and referrs to the bride.

John 3:29  He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

ciy:
Kat

That is some good info plus the several parables in the gospels about wedding feasts, virgins, and such.

I also wanted to point out that a national poll I ran across a few years ago showed that over 80% of churchgoers believed that "God helps those who help themselves" was a verse in the bible.  Again showing how uninterested they are in the Word of God when one of the over riding messages in the bible is that "I can do nothing of myself, but my Father works through me" or "I can do all things through Christ".

Just thought I would throw that in.
CIY

lilitalienboi16:
Keep studying Micah. Everything ray said is very very solid and i havn't seen anyone that refute anything he has said.

Good luck with that if you're trying to do that.

The Bride of Christ is not an unscriptural statement and i don't think ray was saying that He was quoteing scripture.

Kat pointed to some scriptures which give us an idea as to who the bride of Christ really is.

As for adam dieng for eve. My gosh where do i begin to explain this.

Okay pay close attention.

I wrote this article a while ago to explain it and i posted on here before but ill post it again. I hope it helps you understand how we can see adam as a figure and shadow of Christ the spiritual reality.

Begin Article:

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Now this isn't my point here, but i wanted to ask you all, does God really mean 'every man' when He says it? Was Christ the head of Hitler? Is He the head of Bush, or me? How many of you believe that God means, everyman when He says it?

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

With that in mind let us continue;

Gen 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:20 "And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

What we are being told here is that as humanity [eve] came out of Christ [adam], so did Christ come out from the Father;

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Now many of you are probably wondering where i got 'humanity' out of adam and eve, well let me show you;

Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

What are we told about the 'eve,' or 'all living things?'

Genesis 3:16 Thy desire shall be to [properly translated AGAINST] thy husband and he shall rule over thee"

Now many see this as teaching that Man is to rule over women, but how did the apostle paul see this?

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Ephesians 5:31-32 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now notice what paul says about the church's relationship to Christ's;

Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

What did adam say about his wife?

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Adam is the figure, a shadow, a type of Christ, he is the visible, making the invisible clearly seen. Eve is a represents humanity, and all of us, likewise 'the church.' This shows how the church, and all humanity will be ruled over by 'Christ.'

Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

We are also told that this 'women' the 'mother of all living' [eve] is naturaly against her 'husband' or 'man'[adam]. What does this reveal to us? It shows us that all of humanity [eve] is naturaly AGAINST God [ adam the figure of Christ to come], by the very sinful nature he was created in.

Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity [Deep seated hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So understanding that Adam is the figure of Christ, and Eve represents all humanity, we can understand Eve is 'bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh' for adam, so is all humanity for Christ, we all came out of Christ, and we all are 'in Christ.'

Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Colossians 1:17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist"

Colossians 1:20 "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Romans 11:36 "For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Talking to pagan Athenians, Paul make this amazing statement:

Act 17:28 For in him[God, through Christ] we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring

Now we are coming to the point and reason i am writting to you and i hope you recieve it all, keeping in mind what has been said;

1 Timothy 2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

What is really being said here? Isn't the fact that adam wasn't decieved, but eve was, make adams sin far worse then eve's because he willingly partook of that fruit when he was not decieved?

The point being made here is NOT that adam's sin was far worse, the point is that Adam [through his LUST for eve] willingly partook of the FRUIT OF DEATH, so that he would NOT be SEPERATED from Eve.

Likewise, Christ [OUT OF PERFECT LOVE] died for HUMANITY, so Humanity would NOT be seperated from Him.

Adam did this out of LUST for eve, while Christ did it out of PERFECT LOVE for humanity.

Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

What is the ultimate point of understanding that Adam willingly died with eve so not to be seperated from her as a shadow and type of Christ and humanity?

It is to see that;

1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive"

End article.

Now i don't want to speak on behalf of ray but this is how i understand it and perhaps this can help you as well. Maybe ray has a different way of explaining it, but this always made sence to me.

I hope it helps.

God bless,

Alex

Sorin:
That's exactly right Alex! The fact that Adam was not deceived, but rather Eve was, shows that Adam knowingly partook of the fruit because he feared losing Eve. And figured, he'd rather die with her, than live without her. Or if one wants to argue that Adam didn't know
what dying was-fine, he at least thought God would take her away from him. He didn't want to be separated from her.
He figured since she ate, now God's going to punish her, so whatever God does to her, if I eat, then he will have to do the same to me.
Either way you look at it. Adam partook out of lust, out of love, out of fear of being alone again-he knew something bad was going to happen. So by partaking of the fruit, he knew at least this way he'll be with her...whatever this 'dying' business is.

That's the way I see it.

BTW: How is "The Bride of Christ" an UnScriptural statement?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page