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Free Will Question

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Sozo:
Hello all,

I just finished "The myth of free will exposed" section in Ray's "Lake of Fire" series.  In part 3, Ray goes into much detail explaining that now only do we not have free will, but that every choice we make is caused by God.  I do completely understand and agree that man does not have a free will.  The part I'm having difficulty with is that God causes and brings about every single choice that we make.  Rather than offer any philosophical excuse for my difficulty in understanding this, I will offer a verse that seems to state that God does not cause every single choice that we make. 

Ray has provided many verses in his paper that states that God is the cause of all our choices and the Bible does not contradict, right?  So can someone please help me understand this verse...if God causes everything then why did he make this statement in Jeremiah 32:35....

"And they built the high places of Baal, which [are] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through [the fire] unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

Here he clearly states that this abomination never came to his mind.  So if this verse is true, then how did God cause it when he clearly states that he had nothing to do with this abomination?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Sozo

rk12201960:
 HI Sozo
Make sure the translation is correct.
sometimes its the translation thats messed up.

Randy

Kat:

Hi Sozo,

I'm glad you have joined us here on the forum  :)
I think Randy is right, your question had to do with the translation of the word "mind."

Jer. 32:35 ...which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind (3820), that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."

H3820
labe - inner man, mind, will, heart:

Ray has an email where he brings this out.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2143.0.html ---

  I have also covered Jer. 32:35 in the past. The word translted "mind" in Jer. 32:35 is not the Hebrew word for mind, but rather "heart."  It did not enter into God's "HEART" these evil things, whereas He certainly knew in His MIND that men would do this.

    God be with you,
    Ray

Sozo:
Thanks for the replies.  I did go check and see where this word could have been better translated as heart rather than mind.  However, I am still having some difficulty with this teaching of God causing and bringing about all of our choices. 

In Jer. 32:35, you can see that God was disgusted at the actions of these people.  I can understand that he knew what they would do, but did he cause them to do it?  Did he cause those people to roast their babies alive?  If the answer is yes, then why would he be so upset with them?  They did exactly what he made them do.  Wouldn't that also mean that in all actuality God was the one roasting their children?  For example, if I hired a hit man to "off" someone, then I would be just as guilty of murder as the hitman. 

Let me give another scenario....I have a wife, 2 sons and a 6 yr old daughter.  What if some thugs broke into my house one night and overpowered us, killed my sons and brutally raped and murdered my wife and baby girl.  Now would I be wrong for blaming God for this horrendous event since he caused it to happen?  Again, I can understand if he knew that something like this would happen, but did he actually cause it?  Did he send those men to my house to perform this evil deed?

In case you haven't noticed, I'm having a little trouble with this teaching.  Maybe one of you could give me a little more insight.  Thanks again,

Sozo

rk12201960:
Hi Sozo,
Things of God only come in Gods speed.
I think you might be trying to figure this out with human reasoning.

God created everything, yes?
Because of God you are here right now.

God caused the King of Egypt to do things to Gods people.
He hardend his heart.

Ray really brings these points out. Maybe read LOF again.
Build up you foundation on things you can grasp and work from there.
Don't build the roof first as its hard to build under such a large weight.

I would also pray about such things.
I'm not trying to be mean but its hard to help one understand until Gods shows them himself.(In spirit)

Gods speed.
Randy

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