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Author Topic: I choose to go to hell  (Read 7844 times)

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phazel

  • Guest
I choose to go to hell
« on: February 14, 2008, 05:34:06 PM »



While I do not believe in Hell,  I am playing Devils advocate with this post.


According to basic Christian theology, we  (we being believers) are responsible to evangelize the world and we will be held accountable for those that we do not spread the word to.

The reasons why we fail at evangelizing the world are many,  complacency, fear, lack of care, not willing to sacrifice (whatever it would take)  money,  time, etc.   


Once during  my church going days I had a thought about just how terrible I was at witnessing, how thoughtless I was to feel great about my salvation while those I failed to witness to are either burning in hell forever or simply eternally separated from God doomed to an eternal sorrow and regret.

Sorry,  Christians, the appeal to emotion to trivialize eternal separation from God by saying it is not "torture"  but eternal sorrow have NO clue the torture depression really is.  So to say separation from God would not be torture is pathetic.


With that said,  If hell is real, and I have failed loved ones and friends and a stranger on the street,  then I choose to be with those I failed.

My prayer is that God send me to hell too,  because if I failed them and there is no mercy for those I failed from the "LOVING" God.   Then I cannot with good conscience allow myself eternal bliss.


I choose Hell








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Martinez

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 06:05:37 PM »

LOL, I remember when I too was a citizen of the nation of Christendom and spoke christianeze a language of self contradiction.

I have a couple of verses that I like to quote to these Christian's who insist that 1) Hell is eternal separation from God and 2) that you choose to go there!

Rev 14:10  he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.


Rev 20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Is it just me who thinks this is funny?
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 06:06:34 PM »

Hi phazel,

I see your point and agree as there was a time (even though I really was never convinced about hell being real) when if given the choice of spending eternity with what I knew and felt about the overtly religeous folks in their version of heaven and the the every day unreligeous sinners I dealt with in my day to day life, hell whatever it might entail would have been a no brainer choice for me.

Not that I hated the religeous folks I just found them tedious and boring for the most part, not that I loved all the characters I dealt with through the years at least I could usually find a way relate to them or at least respect their bounderies as they respected mine, if that did not work we could battle, I accepted that.

I was never able to feel comfortable in church, when I was there I could not wait to leave, I really can't remember ever thinking, "gee the service is over already? Where did the time go? That was great!" I was always anxious to be out the door. There was one point when I went along willingly but that was very, very shortlived. My time in church was to satisfy other people never as an obligation I could feel was from God, the spirit in all the different churches I attended did not seem to be agreeable to me, I really did feel like an outcast, doomed from the very start and it went downhill from there!  ;)

You know when I attend a BT Conference just the opposite feeling encompasses me, the Spirit is strong, the fellowship is incredible and the presentations are fantastic, I really do not like seeing them come to an end. Nashville will be my 5th Conference and I am already more than anxious for September to roll around, I have never, ever felt this way about any denominational (or non denominational) gathering. That is just me though, I know others have had some good experiences and good friendships in churches but that was not my own personal experience, looking back to the churches is at least one temptation I will not have to deal with, I have plenty more to take it's place though!  :P

His Peace to you,

Joe 
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Martinez

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 06:20:07 PM »

Hey Joe, I can really relate to your church experience.

Church for me was like a going for a walk in a pair of shoes that were 2 sizes to small.

very uncomfortable, go back into Babylon will never be high on my list of temptations either.
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steve

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 07:10:26 PM »

A scripture that I am always reminded of when they start talking about hell is this.

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?If I ascend up into heaven,thou art there:if I make my bed in hell, behold,thou art there. Psalms 139: 7-8.

Peace,

Steve
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 07:11:12 PM »

Hey Martinez,

Understood!  ;)

I have to ask you though to please elaborate a bit on the verses you quoted previously, sorry to say I missed your point.

His Peace to you,

Joe
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 07:17:56 PM »

A scripture that I am always reminded of when they start talking about hell is this.

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?If I ascend up into heaven,thou art there:if I make my bed in hell, behold,thou art there. Psalms 139: 7-8.

Peace,

Steve



I think that verse gives so much credibility to the proper translation being "Grave".   God is in hell?


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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 07:20:12 PM »

A scripture that I am always reminded of when they start talking about hell is this.

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?If I ascend up into heaven,thou art there:if I make my bed in hell, behold,thou art there. Psalms 139: 7-8.

Peace,

Steve

Amen Steve!

Excellent observation, according to the Christian dogma "hell is eternal separation from God" how can they make this verse fit?

Oh, that's right, it must be "out of context!"  ::)

Isn't it comforting to know that even as we and our Brothers, Sisters and loved ones are "sleeping" He is still with us?

His Peace to you,

Joe
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 07:28:55 PM »

A scripture that I am always reminded of when they start talking about hell is this.

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?If I ascend up into heaven,thou art there:if I make my bed in hell, behold,thou art there. Psalms 139: 7-8.

Peace,

Steve



I think that verse gives so much credibility to the proper translation being "Grave".   God is in hell?




Yep!

So true


Psa 139:8  If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell,7585 behold, thou art there.

H7585
שׁאל    שׁאול
she'ôl  she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

Imagine the storm if you were to stand up and quote this verse in a traditional Christian church, "hey folks, it looks like God is in hell too, maybe it isn't so hopeless after all!"

Peace,

Joe

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Martinez

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 09:03:42 PM »

Hey Martinez,

Understood!  ;)

I have to ask you though to please elaborate a bit on the verses you quoted previously, sorry to say I missed your point.

His Peace to you,

Joe



Sorry, what I mean is Christians like to come up with verses of the bible that supposedly support their belief in Hell, but quite often they cite verses that contradict other verses that supposedly support their doctrine of Hell fire.


They will say that Hell is separation from God, but they will give you Rev 14:10 to show you that the bible!

Well tell then how it is possible for someone to be eternally separated from God whilst being tortured in fire froever in fire?
I know what they would say because I've heard them say it before "with God all things are possible"
LOL!

They will also say that God doesn't send you to Hell, you choose to go there, but then in the other breath quote Rev 20:15 which shows people being thrown into the Lake of fire!

If they had chosen willingly to go there then why do they need to be thrown?
how come it doesn't talk about them marching into the Lake of fire if they chose to go willingly?

Are you with me now?
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Matt

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 09:57:23 PM »

Quote
They will also say that God doesn't send you to Hell, you choose to go there

I heard someone say just yesterday that not only do we choose to go to hell, but but because He loves us so much, God will not stop us from making that choice. 

I am beginning to understand more, and in the process, I get very disgusted with these kinds of sayings.
Who am I to judge them though, I was once there too.

Thank you Lord for showing us the truth! :)

Matt
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Little Joe

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 10:26:00 PM »

Quote
They will also say that God doesn't send you to Hell, you choose to go there

I heard someone say just yesterday that not only do we choose to go to hell, but but because He loves us so much, God will not stop us from making that choice. 

I am beginning to understand more, and in the process, I get very disgusted with these kinds of sayings.
Who am I to judge them though, I was once there too.

Thank you Lord for showing us the truth! :)

Matt

Yeah, you make a good point Matthew.  I feel the same way about not judging them.   I have close friends who believe in the hell doctrine.  One friend of mine knows where I stand, but we can still fellowship on what we do agree on.  Maybe my speaking to him planted a seed - the Lord knows.

Peace,

Joe
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musicman

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2008, 11:01:43 PM »

Concerning the title of this thread:
No, I don't choose to go to hell.  I choose to choose as God intends me to choose at this time.  I choose to mock those who believe such hatefull hell garbage.

Quote
They will also say that God doesn't send you to Hell, you choose to go there

I heard someone say just yesterday that not only do we choose to go to hell, but but because He loves us so much, God will not stop us from making that choice. 

I am beginning to understand more, and in the process, I get very disgusted with these kinds of sayings.
Who am I to judge them though, I was once there too.

Thank you Lord for showing us the truth! :)

Matt

I would tell that person: If a child wanted to run out into the road should the parent respect that child's wish?

Oh, and Joe, I have some hell believing friends whom I would like to shove the truth down their throats.  Unfortunately, they rarely bring up the subject so I don't feel welcomed to bring it up.  I seriously lack the understanding of people who believe that doctrine. 
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hebrewroots98

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Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2008, 09:31:24 PM »

Amen and Amen my dear brothers!  HELL...What a deception for the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of 'believers' who are in our world today!  I have heard each and everyone of these arguments from the christians and it just makes me ill to know that they have bought into the greatest lie that satan has ever perpetrated onto  this human race, (and from the beginning of time!)  I am astounded at these ppl and how little they really do know their Bible and HIM!  (Yes, I too was there, so I understand them and therefore have pitty on those who are seriously trying to learn biblical truths... (for those who are NOT serious and who do not want the truths...I want to just come down hard on them, but, most of the time the Holy Spirit has me to be gentle with them or to not even bring up the HELL subject since they are so unwilling to change.  I have never been able to come down very harshly with anyone on this subject yet; but I have been able to share with deep compassion on a few occassions...

Very good correlations here Phazel!
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2008, 02:28:08 AM »

Hello Martinez

I get your point about Christians presenting the Scriptures as CONTRADICTING and then breezing over what THEY do not understand. They say they understand by FAITH and carry on accepting their interpretations and beliefs in Hell, and Free Will.

I too was once with such a crowd. I too, like you Joe, never really was quenched of the thirst and hunger of my soul and often felt the pain they believe to be justified. If there was a Hell, it is the Christian that is manufacturing it!

Understanding these folks is like trying to understand insanity! That's a no through road! :D ;D

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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ellie77

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2008, 06:37:41 AM »

HI everyone,
 I never cease to feel grateful and thankful for the truth and the subjects that are discussed here. I so felt like "that" in church, always one foot out the door,mentality. So glad when it happened. Just yesterday I was reading an article,in our local paper on all the news by a pastor of one of our Church's,all good news and encouragement. Then right at the bottom,in the proverbial "fine print" was written "Those that don't know Jesus will go to hell".The name of the church is Grace church. Nathan,my son always called it disgrace church.I can not help but totally agree with him.Horrible insanity.
 Blessings, Ellie....
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2008, 03:59:03 PM »

Hey Martinez,

Understood!  ;)

I have to ask you though to please elaborate a bit on the verses you quoted previously, sorry to say I missed your point.

His Peace to you,

Joe



Sorry, what I mean is Christians like to come up with verses of the bible that supposedly support their belief in Hell, but quite often they cite verses that contradict other verses that supposedly support their doctrine of Hell fire.


They will say that Hell is separation from God, but they will give you Rev 14:10 to show you that the bible!

Well tell then how it is possible for someone to be eternally separated from God whilst being tortured in fire froever in fire?
I know what they would say because I've heard them say it before "with God all things are possible"
LOL!

They will also say that God doesn't send you to Hell, you choose to go there, but then in the other breath quote Rev 20:15 which shows people being thrown into the Lake of fire!

If they had chosen willingly to go there then why do they need to be thrown?
how come it doesn't talk about them marching into the Lake of fire if they chose to go willingly?

Are you with me now?

Thanks for the clarification Martinez, I am there.  ;)

His Peace to you,

Joe
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Martinez

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2008, 07:57:53 PM »

HI everyone,
 I never cease to feel grateful and thankful for the truth and the subjects that are discussed here. I so felt like "that" in church, always one foot out the door,mentality. So glad when it happened. Just yesterday I was reading an article,in our local paper on all the news by a pastor of one of our Church's,all good news and encouragement. Then right at the bottom,in the proverbial "fine print" was written "Those that don't know Jesus will go to hell".The name of the church is Grace church. Nathan,my son always called it disgrace church.I can not help but totally agree with him.Horrible insanity.
 Blessings, Ellie....



Ha ha LOL!

I know of a similar thin where a church sent out tracts into the comunity (small town up the road) and it said something like, "if you don't repent and follow Jesus you are going to go to Hell"

The people who were telling us about this are friends of my wife's and ordinary Hell fire Christians.
they were complaining about it saying that that was a terrible thing to say and you would more likely cause people turn away from Jesus, but when I tried to tell them the good news (the actual good news) they were not happy about that either!

Go figure?

I don't understand Christians anymore!
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Kent

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2008, 09:59:39 AM »

Hey Joe, I can really relate to your church experience.

Church for me was like a going for a walk in a pair of shoes that were 2 sizes to small.

very uncomfortable, go back into Babylon will never be high on my list of temptations either.

Not just the "teachings"  ::) but those butt-numbing pews make me anxious to get out.
I wonder if they got the idea of those from The Inquisition?
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Martinez

  • Guest
Re: I choose to go to hell
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2008, 07:42:50 PM »

Hey Joe, I can really relate to your church experience.

Church for me was like a going for a walk in a pair of shoes that were 2 sizes to small.

very uncomfortable, go back into Babylon will never be high on my list of temptations either.

Not just the "teachings"  ::) but those butt-numbing pews make me anxious to get out.
I wonder if they got the idea of those from The Inquisition?



Not mention those mind numbing sermons!
I think the order of numbness would be thus....

Butt: this makes easier sit there and listen to some guy up on the pulpit blatantly contradicting himself.

Mind: after this goes, you no longer think for yourself, you just blurt out the pre programmed christian responses that your pastor gives.

Conscience: once this goes, it's all over!, you actually take acception to someone telling you that God is not a bumbling buffoon who intends to torture most of humanity in unspeakable agony for all eternity!

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