What can you say about this stuff? God critics love this stuff..........

[Michele]

Hi everybody, I found this comment left by a poster on another website and I'd like some answers/opinions on it.  I want to say as a person who has many agnostics/atheists in my extended family that this is the types of things that they throw out about God/Bible/ and I can truthfully say I cannot blame them.  I am still yet an infant yet in my understanding but I am working on it everyday, yet I have no answers for this type of thing, none at all to my shame....do any of you?  THIS is the EXACT type of attitude that I have to live with everyday of my life as a christian from the athiests in my extended family..we don't speak outload about it hardly ever but it's definately there, the antagonism, disbelief, negative vibes and I don't know what to say.........I just don't.  I want to say these things are for some reason, but they really do just sound awful and I don't have any answers.  How can I tell them how good God's supposed to be when they read all this in the Bible?  Truthfully you can see why lots of people are "down" on believing in God when they read this stuff.  I try to not judge them at all though it's hard when you know they're poking fun at you for trying to go God's way...yet can you honestly blame them?  It's even hard for me and I'm being dragged to God so if they're not being dragged yet (or however scripture terms it) then of course these things are going to be impossible for them to deal with..it reads like a horror story.  Actually I have a twisted sense of humor and I am able to stand outside of myself and look in and see where anti-god people would find this very funny, I try to go with God and I can see the sarcastic humor in it, yet it makes me sad at the same time.  Underneath the supposed humor, the sarcasm from them is sincere.  I felt for a long time that it was my job to defend God, but I feel so small and unable.  Also to be completely honest, I don't know how I feel myself about all of these things he mentions here....not good.  ..........any helpful comments are truly appreciated.
thanks,
Michele

(Below comment quoted from another website)
"Morals. These, like laws, are created by humans and continue to this day to evolve. Things that are hideously immoral today were perfectly acceptable in the past - including in your 'perfect' bible. I hope you can bear the terrible formatting that this site subjects us to, but here's a humorous 'letter' to President Bush regarding his religious views. -----Dear President Bush, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same %!!@ marriage. As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homo!%&#xua;l lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homo@%##uality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination? 7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging"

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Michele,

The world of unbelievers cannot see what you are seeing because the Lord has yet to begin to remove the scales from their eyes. It will be more profitable for you to resist debating or force feeding scriptures to them. It would be better to provide a peaceful spirit displaying patience and by being content with the situation(s) you must deal with every day.

This will draw more attention to "the reason of the hope that is in you" (Christ) than any words ever will, if you are seen living the Word rather than merely speaking the Word it will genuinely affect some of the people around you.

1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Remember until God draws a person and graces that person with His Spirit they will not, cannot see spiritual things.   

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

His Peace and Comfort to you,

Joe

[Sorin]

Hi Michele,

I would tell him, yes, you are supposed to do all that, because we are still living about 4k yrs ago, and we are still under the Old Covenant and under the law.


Take care,
Sorin 

[musicman]

These arguments make perfect sense. . . to the people of this world.  I must say, these comments are hiliarious and I love reading them.  But who are dumber, those who think those laws are supposed to be followed today or the atheists who mock them?  And by the way, it aint our business to decide who can marry who.

[Sorin]

These arguments make perfect sense. . . to the people of this world.

Yeah, perhaps to those who think we are still living in that time. And if they think that, then they're the ones with the mental issues. Since they can't realize that life was much different back then, than it is now. And perhaps those laws made perfect sense at the time.
Okay, maybe not all....but I can see why homosexuality would be outlawed, and or adultery, sleeping with your mom, etc...
Only the godless perverts would argue in favor of 'mammal to mammal love' and other sick behavior that godless people do, since without acknowledging there is a God, in their minds, there are no morals-there is no wrong or right, so long as you don't hurt anyone, and it's consensual. To that I say, then why should hurting anyone be wrong? Isn't that also a "man-made" law? So why should I follow it?

I must say, these comments are hiliarious and I love reading them.

Yes it would be cute if a little child wrote them-but since I'm speculating it was written by an adult. I find it rather sad, to be honest with you. Heh.

But who are dumber, those who think those laws are supposed to be followed today or the atheists who mock them?

The Atheists who mock them, because, they're supposed to live and let live, as they want the religious folk to do when it comes to 'same -sex marriage' and the like. So, by attacking religious folk almost religiously, they are nothing more than hypocrites! They get so worked up over people being against 'same-sex marriage' yet they do the same thing when it comes to people believing in God. They want to stop people from believing in God, just like religious folk want to stop people from marrying the same sex.

And by the way, it aint our business to decide who can marry who.

But it is our business to define what marriage is, and what it is not. And no, I do not believe they have the right to get married. And if it were up to me, it would be outlawed!
How you like them apples?   

Peace,
Sorin

[phazel]

The answer is to just keep learning and not concern yourself with what may appear to be attacks to your faith.

God has planned it all, an Atheist whether they know it or not will one day bow before Jesus willingly.  There is absolutely nothing you can possibly say or do to convince them.  It is not your Job.

I sometimes pay attention to what atheists say because sometimes what they say can contain truth.  The vast majority of atheists are good at countering the christian doctrinal views by pointing out contradictions, etc.

Since it is assumed that you do not follow christian doctrine,  keep in mind that they really are not attacking your faith. And in the end Scripture says they are not attacking you in the first place, they are attacking christ.

I do not think Christ is too concerned about it.   

[Kent]

I've learned a lot from atheists. Not directly, but indirectly. They make me think, and to research, and to pray for answers to questions they bring up. They seem surprised when I admit that I dont know all, or have the answers immediately to the questions they bring up. Sometimes I do have the answer, but not always.

I'd rather hang around an atheist than a hellfire and torture christian, any day. They are nicer people, if rather unwise. And if and when they are called, they WILL respond.

Like  others have said, just concern yourself with learning and don't sweat the attacks. Just be at peace and show them the love that is due any of Gods' creation. But personally, I wouldn't put up with any real abuse.

[Kat]

Hi Michele,

Remember this Scripture.

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Now if somebody ask you in sincereity about what you believe, then of course it would be good to share with them what you believe. 
But if somebody is hostile and antagonistic, you will not be able to give them a suitable answer.  It seem that your family and friends are just taunting you.  Don't make yourself a target for them, by sharing things they can not comprehend.  I think that is what the above Scripture is referring to. 

You are given something that is very precious, it is for YOU to grow and learn these Truths.  They do not have their eyes opened and they can not see these wonderful Truths that is being given to you.  So hold these things dear and only share them with somebody you can see has a really genuine desire to understand.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Samson]

Thankyou Kat and Joe,

                               Kat, your comment is precisely a balanced and Scriptural view regarding giving a witness to others, if someone is initially antagonistic towards one of us in respectfully explaining these Great Truths that we try to share with them, its' pointless to pursue the matter, it won't do them any good and it doesn't do us any good either to pursue a senseless debate. Also, Joe, very well said about God removing the scales from their eyes, so they can spiritually see, get well and get the sense of it. Reminds me somewhat of the passage in Matthew. 9:39-41; " If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, We see, Your sin remains. That person from another Web-site doesn't realize you can't legislate morality through our Government. After reading the Twin Towers article by Ray and enjoying every bit of it, I draw the conclusion that you can't ask a corrupt and immoral nation to preserve morality, thats' like asking a prostitute's support against Fornication(porneia).

                                   Also thankyou Kat for the information about how to paste, cut and transport information from one place to another.

                                                  Your Brother in Christ, Samson.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Michele

You have been given some valuable insights, support and encouragement from everyone who has responded to you on this thread.

From my side, first of all, I believe that to be able to answer any of the comments made, you have to have keys. As you familiarise yourself with these keys, you can go into deeper insights and understanding of God and His Word and this makes the objections and thinking behind some of these articles, less able to disrupt,  disturb or challenge anymore. They begin to appear like toothless lions or shadows of insects overblown with their own hot air!

The keys that are missing very obviously in any material like the one you posted from that web site, is that the author sees literally not spiritually. They are clueless and key less.

Here are seven keys from http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm#keys

7 SPIRITUAL KEYS TO UNLOCK SCRIPTURE

"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural (physical); and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (1 Cor. 15:45)
 
"Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION (to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty) upon whom the ends of the world are come" (1 Cor. 10:11)


"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of an private interpretation (Gk: 'is becoming it's OWN explanation')" (2 Pet. 1:20)


"The words that I speak unto you, they ARE SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63)


"In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (2 Cor. 13:1 & Rev.11:3)


"...comparing (or: 'matching') SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL" (1 Cor. 2:13)


"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which ARE and WAS and SHALL BE" (Rev. 16:5, also Rev. 4:8 & 11:17)



More insight on how to understand the word of God is at http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

Learning these skills helps to enable and equip you to being able to show with discernment the error in thinking and the foolishness that the world calls spiritual illumination.

Learning the skills first is preparation for giving the answers later. Also, Ray's latest Bible study is a precious teaching on using and applying our faith with skillful and accurate precision which is needed for any surgeon who has to laser cut away the cataract on blind eyes. In other words, it provides very healthy spiritual training against any false teachings or mockery against God as a preparation worth practicing.

Peace be to you sister

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Samson,

You are very welcome Brother, I really appreciate your fellowship here as well as all my sisters and brothers.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[musicman]

Only the godless perverts would argue in favor of 'mammal to mammal love'

What creatures should mammals be having sex with? Fish?

And by the way, it aint our business to decide who can marry who.

But it is our business to define what marriage is, and what it is not. And no, I do not believe they have the right to get married. And if it were up to me, it would be outlawed!
How you like them apples?   

 

Peace,
Sorin

The laws of this world are invented by man.  People have a right to believe whatever they want.  We can say what we feel but it is not our place to make the laws of this land for all to follow, yet.  If you are concerning yourself with laws designed for the moral minority then you are not following Christ's instructions.  I still vote, but I wouldn't even bother voting on such a ridiculous measure as whether two men can marry.  Whether it's Adam and Eve, Adam and Steve or Madam and Eve, it just aint my business.  If any law were up to me, I would make it not up to me any longer.  Call me carnal, but I still think that victimless crimes should all be abolished.

[Sorin]

Only the godless perverts would argue in favor of 'mammal to mammal love'

What creatures should mammals be having sex with? Fish?

Oh you don't know about that one. The term "mammal to mammal love' comes from the sick perverts who made a movie about human males having sex with male horses. And they referred to it as 'mammal to mammal love'. So no, mammals shouldn't be having sex with fish, but that doesn't make it ok for man and horse to be together either. Capeesh?

BTW, one of them has died while in the act, internal bleeding and other stuff. So now, everybody knows his dirty little secret. Shame, shame, shame.[/brown]

And by the way, it aint our business to decide who can marry who.

But it is our business to define what marriage is, and what it is not. And no, I do not believe they have the right to get married. And if it were up to me, it would be outlawed!
How you like them apples?   

   

Peace,
Sorin

The laws of this world are invented by man.  People have a right to believe whatever they want.  We can say what we feel but it is not our place to make the laws of this land for all to follow, yet.  If you are concerning yourself with laws designed for the moral minority then you are not following Christ's instructions.  I still vote, but I wouldn't even bother voting on such a ridiculous measure as whether two men can marry.  Whether it's Adam and Eve, Adam and Steve or Madam and Eve, it just aint my business.  If any law were up to me, I would make it not up to me any longer.  Call me carnal, but I still think that victimless crimes should all be abolished.

Oh, so man invented marriage, not God. That's why it matters to God whether or not two people are married while having sex, because man made those laws, not God-God merely concerns himself with the laws of man. 
Okay, perhaps 'outlawed' wasn't the proper term, but 'same -sex' marriage wouldn't be recognized, it would be like someone marrying his dog-it would be the laughing stock. Homosexuals can't produce babies, therefore they shouldn't get married, and they definitely shouldn't  receive any of the tax breaks that straight married couples get. Two men living together are usually going to earn more income than a straight couple, so why should two men living together, be recognized as being married? No! I can not be for such a
twisted perversion of marriage.

[Michele]

Thank you all for your replies. 

It is hard to be in a marriage where you each have separate, completely separate views on religion....and yet I know that if I believe in God at all that my life is for a purpose.  And I know it's true that if it weren't for this situation that I'm in (my life), I probably wouldn't bother so much with trying to learn about everything (God/God's plans/everything spiritual).   I do love my spouse very much.   We have our problems but I'm certainly thankful for the good things we share.  And thank God I no longer believe that it's my personal job to save his soul! Whew! What a load off!!!  Nowdays my philosophy in life is more or less, Live and Let Live.  God will handle the rest. 

I really used to feel sad and envy other couples who seemed so together on everything in their lives, especially their beliefs.  It seemed like they must have it so much easier.  Not now though.  I no longer believe that those who share their beliefs will not have their own troubles anyway.  I guess perhaps there might be some perfect couples without a worry in the world...I've not met any personally though.  

I have lots of other questions...see you on another thread!
:)Michele

[phazel]

I really used to feel sad and envy other couples who seemed so together on everything in their lives, especially their beliefs.  It seemed like they must have it so much easier.  Not now though.  I no longer believe that those who share their beliefs will not have their own troubles anyway.  I guess perhaps there might be some perfect couples without a worry in the world...I've not met any personally though.  

I still work through that a bit.  I am very susceptible to the illusion that can be made when people work very hard at hiding what kind of relationship they really have.  So I can tend to think that they know something about life that I don't and I want to know it too.  I find that I can be drawn to those people like a strong magnet.   When I am able to break through their shell on occasion I am always,  "not almost always"  ALWAYS disappointed.

I am glad for those experiences as it is teaching me little by little who I have to learn to rely on.

ME....


Just Kidding,  of course it is Jesus.

[Phil3:10]

Michele,
Your comment about being in marriage with each spouse having different religious views hits home in my own situation. My precious wife is so much a better person than me. However, she is still within the Babylonian church system and seems to be content therein. I have found that trying not to change her has brought us closer and just the knowledge that I can do nothing but pray that GOD will drag her out has been such a comfort. For months, after coming out of the church system, there was contention but gradually my wife has accepted my new beliefs. What a peace to know that GOD has each of us where HE wants us at all times.
We can only leave it up to GOD who wills and does what HE desires and for reasons known only to HIM.
IN HIM,
Phil3:10