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DoubtingSaint

  • Guest
A Question
« on: February 22, 2008, 01:35:04 AM »

I want input from other members on these questions please:
Since we know these truths,and we know the true church is not man-made,nor does it teach doctrines of men,should we continue to be a part of or even attend services of any other(man-made)church(or sect) with which we are or have been affliated? Would it be wrong or inappropriate to continue such fellowship? What have some you done as to this,and why?
Any input is welcome!Thanks!
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phazel

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2008, 02:06:13 AM »


Personally I have just stopped attending services at a church but I had been for close to 2 years after I had started to see that the teachings did not fit what I had come to believe.

God will let you know.   God will get you out even if you feel like you desire  to stay.

I desired to stay, I was very co-dependant and had actually developed an obsessive quality towards a person in the church,  I got to where I thought about this person to the point where I knew I was wrong for being that way.  I prayed and prayed that God remove this obsession from my mind and in the end God showed me that I had to leave the church and get away from this person for this to go away. 

It was a very painful and grevious process to leave, It scared me to death. But now that I am away from that church,  that obsession is fading away and I see that God did not want me there and he dragged me out by the nape of my neck.

I am glad he did.  Some talk about God not forcing us to do something, I have come to believe that force for the right reason is not wrong.  LOL.
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Linny

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 03:11:45 AM »

My husband and I have left our church. Good or bad, it wasn't that difficult as we had not formed any tight relationships in this church of 3 years. Sadly, the people there were very cliquish and since we weren't wealthy, we never fit in. We only went because we loved and respected the pastor. No one has even missed us including him. That is sad to me as it only further proves we needed to leave. Our dear friends were not members of our church as we'd left what we considered wishy-washy churches about 5 years ago while they stayed.

But leaving "church" in general is hard as we haven't told anyone yet! The only ones who know are a like-minded couple that agree with us. We haven't stepped out and told everyone about our "heretical" thinking yet as we are trying to get ourselves really educated before we do. If God calls us to speak out, we will, ready or not. I guess I am a little nervous about it as I know the persecution will start. We have many Christian friends and I don't know how many will come along with us, how many will tolerate us, and how many might leave. My dh is strong and ready to speak out. If you knew us, you'd know just how opposite this is!  :)

I think this scripture tells us what we have to do....
Rev. 18:4
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

Personally, even if I didn't want to leave my church, I couldn't stand to listen to the teachings anymore. Now I hear the lies ALL THE TIME when I listen to worship songs, Christian radio, do Bible with my homeschooled daughters (and have to change so much of the lesson), and especially sermons.

Just prayerfully make the decision that gives you the most peace. God will lead you in the right direction.

Many blessings!

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Samarnon

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 05:54:15 AM »

Hello and welcome DoubtingSaint,
I too had stopped attending church services and other activities 6 months ago. I had not missed attending church and all its activities for about a year because it was the time that God has put a hunger in me to study and learn His Word.  Because of these, I even enrolled in our church’s Bible School, paid my initial payment.  But a week before the school started, I stumbled on the BT site and read on some of Ray’s teachings that I had found to be true.  I attended Bible school for one week after I read Ray’s teachings, but there was something I felt inside while listening to the speaker/teacher that I can’t quite understand. “I couldn't stand to listen to the teachings anymore” to quote Linny.

And so after that week, I stopped going to church and even Bible school and didn’t think of the money I paid. I just say that was my “tithe” hah!.  Anyway, I felt no remorse or guilty feeling instead, it gives me joy and peace that I couldn’t quite explain.

Ray’s teachings with the help of the Holy Spirit of course had opened my understanding to accept most if not all of Ray’s teachings.

May God bless you.

Joy


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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 11:17:25 AM »

I want input from other members on these questions please:
Since we know these truths,and we know the true church is not man-made,nor does it teach doctrines of men,should we continue to be a part of or even attend services of any other(man-made)church(or sect) with which we are or have been affliated? Would it be wrong or inappropriate to continue such fellowship? What have some you done as to this,and why?
Any input is welcome!Thanks!


The most likely event is a person who knows the truth will no longer want to hear the false teachings at the church. True worship is obedience and that is the one major area that the church lacks not matter the denomination or following. The first paper I studied from BT website were the tithing papers. Since I was currently in a "Word of Faith" church (God want you rich, money cometh, etc.), all lies by the way, I initially thought the gospel of prosperity was the big issue in the church. I went to another church thinking they would be different but they tithed as well. From there I just left all churches but had not yet come into the full knowledge of the truth. I was led back to Ray's website and God opened up my understanding to the salvation of all and many other scriptures that Ray points out again and again.
But the main point is, until I had a full knowledge of the truth I was still looking to be in a church. It was so ingrained in me from their teaching that I had to have a "church home" and a "covering". All that is nonsense. If you continue to study His Word using Ray's teachings to guide you, you will gain an understanding. It will be so opposite from the church you will no longer want to go. It just takes time.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 11:24:00 AM »


I had been in church all my life pretty much, but as an adult and very serious church going 'Christian' for 25 yrs.  I had always been aware of many problems in the church, but felt that was just the way it was and we were 'suppose' to go there to worship God.  I stuck with it, but the last few yrs there, were especially difficult.  
When I came across the Bible Truths website a couple of years ago, it was with joy that I left the church and have never looked back.  I did have a few good friends there and we have visited a few times since I left.  But now we don't seem to have much in common and our visits are less and less, I haven't actually talked to any of them in months now.

mercy, peace and love
Kat


Here are a few emails on this subject.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1188.0.html ----

Funny you should ask "where" one should go to worship, and where I go to worship.  Someone once asked Jesus this very question, and so I will give you His answer:

"The woman said unto Him, Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.  Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and you [you Jews] that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship....Jesus said...You worship you know not what...but the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers [do you want to be a "TRUE" worshipper?] shall worship the Father IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH:  for the Father seeks such to worship Him" (John 4:19-23).

If you go to "a church" composed of people who are NOT "like-minded belivers of the truth," as yourself, how is it that you think that you can "fellowship" with them?  "Be ye NOT unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what FELLOWSHIP has righteousness what unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness....WHEREFORE COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, AND BE YE SEPARATE, says the Lord...." (II Cor. 6:14-18.  See also Rev. 18:4).

God be with you,
Ray  

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1584.0.html ---

The sugar-coated candy religion of Christendom appeals to lusts of the carnal mind. When God begins to humble us of our carnal mind the church looses its luster and the candy is no longer sweet.  God isn't calling us to a feel-good religion.  What feels good is the truth, even if the truth is often painful it still feels good because the destiny of Christ's religion is eternal righteousness and love for all.  There certainly is nothing good about a heaven that allows its guests to view their grandmothers and grandfathers, and maybe even their own children, being tortured in a fire of an eternal hell.  As Paul stated: "Yes woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel."

God be with you,
Ray  

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1304.0.html ---

No, you will not have success in converting your pastor.  Neither would I have success at such an impossible task.  People ask me about "where to go to church" almost on a daily basis. They know that their church and all other churches that they know of, do not teach the truth (worse: they teach lies and heresy).  And so they think that maybe I know of a church a few blocks from where their home or a few miles from their home that does teach all of the truths of God.  Sorry, there is not such thing that I am aware of.
 
If there were churches scattered through BABYLON THE GREAT WHORE, then there would be no need for God to admonish those whom He is choosing, to "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE" (Rev. 18:4).  Are we to just come out of her spiritually, but remain good social friends with them on a weekly basis?
 
Church is not now and never was, a physical building to congregate in to worship God.  Could all the hundreds of thousands of Israelites congregate inside the tiny little tabernacle in the wilderness?  Could ALL JUDEA congregate in the tiny Temple in Jeruslem every sabbath?  The synagogues became corrupted and the churches today are corrupted.  So where do you want to go?  If you want fellowship why not join a social club and keep the false religion out of your fellowship.
 
Jesus taught us that we are to worship God in spirit and in truth, not in this mountain or in Jerusalem, or in a building, or another other "place" that is corrupted.  I can't tell people what to do. If "christian fellowship" means more to them than "Godly worship," then I guess they just  have to keep looking.
 
Being a follower of Jesus Christ was never designed to be a "feel good religion" as many christian churches promise if you join their particular tents on living a worldly life for Jesus.  I trully never miss, "CHURCH"!  I "go to church" every time I open my Bible."

God be with you,
Ray

« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 05:55:13 PM by Kat »
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 01:01:06 PM »

Hello Doubting Saint,

                             I asked myself the same question after leaving the JW's, I started to wonder if I could separate the Fellowship aspect with the divergent beliefs I would encounter when attending different Denominations of "Christianity". I attented a few meetings with the Dawn Bible Students(Those who still follow Charles Russell) and although they weren't Legalistic like the JW's(Rutherfords), I still didn't feel comfortable with some of their Prophetic assertions and their 144,000 interpretation. They did emphasize the Christian Character(fruitage of the Spirit). I tried to keep in mind,Hebrews. 10:23-25, realizing that it wasn't necessary to gather together or assemble with a group of people in a Church-type building, also the Scripture, " Where their are two or three gathered in my name, my spirit is in their midst".
I wondered of what value would it be to assemble with others that believed in Eternal Torment or Eternal Separation, when I couldn't conceive of a Loving and Merciful God punishing anyone for all Eternity, based on what one did or didn't do in 70-80yrs of life. To me, the punishment would greatly exceed the crime. Kat brought out that important Scriptural passage at John. 4:19-23 and also 2Cor. 6:14-18. You might want to read Rays Article on being " Unequally Yoked", its' very good and will also aid in answering your Question, although Ray is applying it primarily to Marriage in this case, but it will answer on a greater scale about being " Unequally Yoked with Unbelievers". I found that article to be very helpfull, in my case, since my Wife doesn't share all my Spiritual views, but is very tolerant of them and supportive and seems to be responding as she views it having a calm and peacefull affect on me. 

                              When leaving the Watchtower, one of the Scriptural points that was brought to my attention, that helped me in this regard about " going somewhere else", insofar as Fellowship is concerned was the following: John.6:66-69, Peter asked Jesus, Whom shall we go away to, not where, because Jesus has sayings of everlasting(age-lasting) Life, not some particular Church Organization. The JW's usually throw that scripture at someone that considers leaving or is leaving by substituting the word WHOM with WHERE.

                               Also going to Church usually amounts to more like joining some Social Club, that can be better accomplished by joining a Club that focuses around some Hobby(like Tennis, Weightlifting or whatever your personal interests). All the spiritual fellowship one can need and want is to be found here.


                               All of this is not meant to imply you can't have a variety of friends elsewhere, its' just that, when disscussing these Spiritual Truths with those who don't share these views, its' pointless to engage in some heated debate that has no end in sight, it certainly won't do you any good and it won't help the other person anyway, your conduct and how you present yourself to the other person, especially in these cases, will be a greater Witness. As a JW or of another former denomination, we might have been overly concerned with " saving them" from Endless Death or Eternal Torment, now we are liberated from having to worry about the Salvation of our Loved ones and others.(1Tim.4:10 & many other Scriptures).

                             May you continue to fellowship with all of us and partake of the wonderfull spiritual feast provided at this Site, Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
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rjsurfs

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 05:39:43 PM »

Repent & Come Out is my input.

Revelation 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Read the Lake of Fire Series.

Bobby
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2008, 02:34:59 AM »


The further AWAY and OUT of Babylon I have come, the more I see Babylon like God sees Babylon.

Babylon or God? Tares or Wheat? Chosen or called? The many or the few? The old wine or the new?

All of these parables that were given to us by Christ are here to understand through the study of the LOF series and the many exquisite teachings we have through Ray.

As Bobby says, keep studying and reading what is taught here in BT! :)

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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David

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2008, 09:24:53 AM »

There is no way I can have any fellowship or partake of what goes on and what is taught in the Church anymore. When I left my Church 9 months ago, at that point I could see and hear that what was being taught and practiced was contrary to Gods word, in particular the Hell fire torment and torture preaching. The Pastor would interject it in every single sermon, every single prayer meeting, no matter what the subject etc, Hell would be mentioned. I remember asking one of the Deacons if he believed that Christ will resurrect the dead, and judge all according to their works etc..to which he said yes he did believe that, and that he believed none believers and the wicked would go to Hell. I pointed out that if this be the case then, Hell is going to be full of repentant believers, which to anyone here and anyone that believes Gods word is utterly stupid. He couldn't see how this could be. I said that if the most wicked, and the most fervent atheists are brought before Christ, in his presence and the presence of his saints, well they sure are not going to be none believers anymore are they. Then if this Dante's inferno actually exists and they are shown their punishment, well even Hitler is going to repent wouldn't you think? So now we have a repentant believer and he's going to be cast into hell forever, and after 20 trillion centuries he is not 1 second closer to the end of his torture? Total insane depraved nonesense. I also ask them at what point Christ stopped being our savior, stopped loving all of mankind, stopped being the Man that healed the sick, the crippled, the blind, raised the dead, forgave adulterers, forgave even those that had him killed.....and became a vengeance filled, hate filled, vile depraved monster that will inflict more torture misery and pain on humanity than a thousand Hitlers.....well at that point I was accused of blasphemy etc. That was all 9 months ago.
Very recently something quite profound happened to me, and I would be very interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience. I very good friend of mine, a brother in Christ has an elder brother in ministry. He is the pastor of a Baptist Church in Preston in Lancishire. My friend gave me a link to his Church and asked me if I would listen to some of the audios. I clicked the first one. The first five minutes was one of the congregation reading from Numbers, then the Pastor started to preach. Not even five minutes in I had to turn it off. I actually felt physically sick, to the point where I could feel the bile rising in my mouth, that's the effect of hearing his blasphemy had on me. In the first few minutes he said that God had obeyed man in Numbers (I forget which chapter and verse it was), and he talked about overhearing a conversation in a super market where a young girl said to her Friend "I can't help the way I am, God made me this way"......to which the pastor said he wanted to go to her and tell her that "no, God did not make her this way, that Eve was made perfect until she sinned, and now we are the creation of the Devil until we believe in Christ"........so now Satan is our creator???????? It really did make feel very sick to hear such blasphemy and heresy.
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Samson

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 11:19:26 AM »

Hello Dave,

               Very Good comments and experience, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes, some of these reasonings they present, can and will make you sick, if not Spiritually, maybe Physically. I used to believe that Adam and Eve were created perfect, with the total " WILL " to resist sin, until Ray pointed out that Eve had the desire in her heart to partake of the forbidden fruit, prior to her touching and eating it. Its' amazing the things that go unnoticed when reading the Scriptures, God created Eve to be Spiritually immature, just the way he wanted her to be. The Greek Word Teleiotes translated Perfection is a relative term--" means to bring to completion or full measure. Perfection as it relates to God is in the absolute sense, but to all others, its' relative. They(Adam & Eve) were perfect in the sense that, they were created to be exactly what God wanted them to be, many people I've spoken to throughtout the years, think of perfection as being equivalent to flawless in all areas.

                 That Pastor that considers Mankind to be Satans' creation, gives him too much credit. He would do well to read the Acount in Job, Satan can't do anything unless God wants him to do it.

                  Insofar as Eternal Torment goes, I personally never believed it, my former religious affiliation taught Annihilation for the wicked and unsaved. Not as bad, a more merciful outcome, but bad enough. Their seems to be a trend in Christendom to believe in Eternal Separation instead of Eternal Torture, although still officially part of their creed(Eternal Torment), aside from the vindictive zealots, the average person doesn't know what to believe, at least thats' been my experience, of course I don't live in the Southern Bible belts and I don't know of or have known of those with a Baptist or Assembly of God backround in my area. Never spent too much time listening to tele-evangelists, the few times that I did, I felt compelled to reach for the device that says, ON,OFF or the STATION SELECTOR.

                  Well, I just want to express my thanks for your Post and my interest and enjoyment of it.

                                               Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 11:48:50 AM »


Hi David,

Very recently something quite profound happened to me, and I would be very interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience. I very good friend of mine, a brother in Christ has an elder brother in ministry. He is the pastor of a Baptist Church in Preston in Lancishire. My friend gave me a link to his Church and asked me if I would listen to some of the audios. I clicked the first one. The first five minutes was one of the congregation reading from Numbers, then the Pastor started to preach. Not even five minutes in I had to turn it off. I actually felt physically sick, to the point where I could feel the bile rising in my mouth, that's the effect of hearing his blasphemy had on me.

Well I have not become physically sick, but....... a couple of times I've turned on the TV to watch a televangelists to see if I could discern the heresy.  Well each time I became so repulsed by their sermon, that I turned it off after just a few mins.

Ray ask me to do a transcript on a speach from someone that he wanted to refute.  Well of course I did it, but it was grueling go over and over that speach to transcribe it.  I had to just turn off my mind from listening to it and just do the words, sort of. 
But I love transcribing Ray's audios, becasue I do have to listen to them over and over.  I know by the time I'm done I will have learned a great deal  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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phazel

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 11:57:42 AM »

The first five minutes was one of the congregation reading from Numbers, then the Pastor started to preach. Not even five minutes in I had to turn it off. I actually felt physically sick, to the point where I could feel the bile rising in my mouth, that's the effect of hearing his blasphemy had on me.



When I chose to leave the church I gave notice to the church leaders.   While I had just as soon walked out,  I really believe I did the right thing in staying for a time to allow others to learn what I knew so they could take over my duties.  Funny thing is I felt like I was giving notice to a workplace.  LOL


Anyway, during that time I still participated in a group for the ministry team I was involved in and as we were being shown a DVD series on worship, I just always had this nagging sick feeling while watching.   It was a series by Robert Morris.

What really hit me badly was  the last segment we watched before I left,  Robert Morris was talking about the Man with the unclean spirits in Mark chapter 5.    Not everything he said was wrong, but the most important aspects that he focues on were totally totally unscriptural.

He said that the man with the unclean spirits had the power of his own will to run to Jesus and worship him

I about lost it, in fact I realize that we are not to cast our pearls before swine, but I sent an e-mail to the leadership of the church scripturally proving that what he said was utter nonsense and that I could no longer stand to watch that crap during my time left in the church.

One guy tried to point out that Robert was right and I asked for scripture, not his opinion on how he felt about it, and I got no reply.

Another interesting thing to all of this is that I got an e-mail and was told that the whole prayer team was praying that I get freedom from lies.   I replied and told them YOUR PRAYERS ARE ANSWERED I AM GETTING FREEDOM FROM LIES THAT IS WHY GOD HAS TOLD ME TO LEAVE THE CHURCH,  THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU.


I got no reply from that either.


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Samson

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 12:22:18 PM »

Hello Everyone,

                     I really enjoyed that Phazel about the " Prayer Team ", thats' one prayer team a person can live without, as the saying goes, " With friends like that, who needs Enemies. "  One of the positive things about having been a JW, when you voluntarily leave, by writing them a resignation letter, you don't have to worry about them praying for you, speaking to you, especially if they consider you an Apostate like me, no communication whatsoever, just a side benefit for me, actually in all seriousness, I preferred that outcome over being nagged and pursued, at that point they wouldn't have convinced me otherwise, about leaving. Although, perhaps some of those that prayed for you, did so in all sincerity, however, most people don't like it when you break with the Status Quo, thats' true in all area's of life, sorta like their little club, they could say the same about us at Bible Truths, the exception being that we have ample Scriptural Support for our beliefs, all of us LOVE TRUTH above all else and look forward to others embracing this TRUTH, sometimes the worst critics and opposers eventually become one of us, thats' an inspiring thought.  Anyway, I enjoyed your comments and look forward to many more.

                           Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
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Phil3:10

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 12:34:41 PM »

It took me about two years to leave the Baptist Church I was in. After spending more than a year involved in writing a church constitution and bylaws it became very apparent to me that something was not right. I did not experience real worship and even though I felt a real love for the people and pastor I felt that most was of man and little was of GOD. Fellowship was good but a real spiritual connection was never there. The final nail in the coffin came when the church started the Purpose Driven Life program. It has been hard  and it has hurt my wife and my relationship considerably. I really planned to go back after this man driven program was over but just could no make myself return. I spent each Sunday reading in BT and GOD dragged me out of this man made church system. Things have gotten much better over time and I would not go back to the church system for anything. I praise GOD all the time for the enlightenment HE brought into my life.
Phil3:10
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David

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2008, 04:33:50 PM »

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. It would seem that in some way or another we are affected by heresy and lies in the Church. John 10:4-5, And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
I think these profound verses are very applicable to our experiences.
Hi Kat, I did have some issues with guilt when I left my Church, I couldn't help feeling I was letting people down. I did notify the Pastor beforehand. I was part of the worship team, more in a coaching role for the musicians than actually taking part in the services.  But I just felt that the Lord was calling me out of that and that I must follow. I'd also gotten to the point where I was sitting at the back listening to the services and thinking to myself ".....that's not right, that's heresy, that's blasphemy....." and actually learning nothing at all and getting no spiritual growth from it. I would come home and listen to one of Rays audios, usually from the other site where his early ones are listed because I didn't know there were any here then. I also started to notice that the pastor would very cleverly switch Bibles when preaching. He would very often quote Matthew 16:18, but always from the King James. I found that to be very deceitful for some reason once I realised what he was doing. You see, he and the Deacons strongly urged everyone to read from the NIV Bible, or at the very least the NKJV. When I showed up at Church with a King James I was actually asked why I would read from it, their reasoning was that it was the oldest English translation (which I found out was not true), and that was it outdated language etc and difficult to understand. Personally I prefer it or the NKJV to any other translations. I went out and got a NIV and really didn't like the way it reads. I don't question its accuracy, I'm far from qualified to do that....its just that to me it reads like a 1970s industrial manual, there's no flow to it and I don't get the feeling that what I'm reading is Gods word, it seems to have lost any spiritual feel to it if that makes any sense.
Anyway my point is, he would always read from the NIV, but then whenever he quoted Matthew 16:18 he would use half that Scripture ".........I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." This he would say was the proof that the Church will continue to grow way past its current 2 billion Christians, but of course those tens of billions that were never "saved" were all burning and many more will be burning etc etc. The Bibles he urged his congregation to read from do not have the word "hell" in that scripture, they have Hades. The Contemporary English version seems to be a very good translation of that Scripture, it has it ....... I will build my church, and death itself will not have any power over it. That translation seems to fit perfectly with opther scriptures such as 1 Corinthians 15:26.
Anyway, I would often sit there when he quoted it and think "I wonder how many here noticed he switched Bibles, because he doesn't want you asking what Hades means".

Outlets like this for our experiences are such a blessing I feel. May God bless you all for sharing.
David. 
 

« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 11:20:59 AM by David »
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: A Question
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 08:13:10 AM »

Hi all

I've been having this going on in my head for a while now. Jesus said in Matthew 10:

35For I have come to turn
   " 'a man against his father,
      a daughter against her mother,
   a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
       36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]

    37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.


Daily I look forward to doing the Will of Him who snatched me out of the shadows into the light. But I must say, turning against our loved ones is tough. My family is a christian family of people who dearly love the Lord and believe they are living for Him. Turning against them not necessarily something I look forward to. I realized my older is hell-bent on eternal torture (excuse the pun). But he's really does get this from his bible. He may not have the understanding opened to him but he isnt necessarily coming up with stuff from the top of his head and making that into Scriptural truths.

Anyway, to please God, I will have to turn against him. This is tough. But I find great comfort in the fact that He promised us greater things than these. So I'll keep that in mind as I "come out of her".

All Glory to Him,
Kweli
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kweli

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Re: A Question
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 08:15:12 AM »

I couldnt even put this together in proper English...
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hillsbororiver

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Re: A Question
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 09:50:18 AM »

Hi Kweli,

Your English is excellent, some of who use this as our first language do not use with as much expertise as you display Brother!


Mat 12:46  While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
 
Mat 12:47  Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
 
Mat 12:48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
 
Mat 12:49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
 
Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

This might on the surface appear callous and even disrespectful, but to me this is Jesus setting priorities and the proper order of how things should be. God comes first, the brethren come second, everyone else comes third, this in itself is difficult enough, in fact (at least in my case) it is impossible but for the grace of God.

We also have this to consider and practice;
   

Gal 6:10  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Heb 12:14  Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

1Pe 2:17  Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

While keeping all this in mind we can't forget what else we are admonished to do;

1Ti 5:8  But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

There is no need to separate yourself from your loved ones, be a good example of your faith let that be your witness to them, if and when the time comes for any division it will be they who will want to disown you but there is always the hope that the Lord will open there eyes in this age, if not we know He will in the next!

His Peace to you,

Joe

 
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