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Author Topic: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....  (Read 2752 times)

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dogcombat

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If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« on: February 22, 2008, 09:44:47 AM »

Reading the most recent posts in the "Emails to Ray".  I've had to just shake my head in partial sadness (because many of the detractors are Spiritually Blind as a bat), but mostly in disgust.  The latest "Tithing" email from Tyler shows just how some people WILL NOT R-E-A-D. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6531.0.html

 I know that unless God has humbled you and led you to Ray's site, you won't get it anyway.  However, that doesn't mean that his detractors couldn't at least take time to READ all of a paper that Ray has posted on this site.  In doing so, they may understand an admonition that Ray has often mentioned on the audios of the Bible Conferences that one has "to CAREFULLY study ALL of the words". 

More and more of us have been taking a second third or fourth read of the papers and seeing what God had hidden the first time.  And that's encouraging.  Because Ray's detractors "Know not what they do".  And when I say detractor, I don't just mean those who write venomous hate mail to Ray, but those who pick stuff "out of the context" that Ray has written in order to nitpick issues with him.

So, I guess the point I'm getting at is that by READING CAREFULLY or perhaps RE-READING CAREFULLY the papers on the bible truths site,  we see ourselves how blind we are and the beast within each of us that we must die to daily.  Though apart from God's Holy Spirit, we can do or learn NOTHING.

Ches



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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2008, 04:58:00 PM »

Hello Ches

This comes to mind John 9 : 41 Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin, but because you now claim to have sight, your sin remains.

They think they see and their sin remains. It is so humbling to consider the extent of their chastisement that is being stored up for them. Some more than others. Ouch when they finally see their folly and comprehend their idolatry and deep seated hate for God! Woe will be to them when their motives are revealed for them to see and acknowledge. Then only they will repent as we are doing in seeing the beast is us and Christ is Sovereign God.

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
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hillsbororiver

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2008, 11:12:18 AM »

Another perfect example of your point Ches;

Tithing
 
on: Today at 09:17:43 AM

Mr. L. Ray;

I read about your tithing commentary.

Please forgive me but i would disagree with you
on the basis of this verse:
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and active."

If we will not count the Old Testament as living and active then we consider it the contrary - dead and inactive - which in turn contradicts to this verse, thus contradict God Himself who is the Living One.

Abraham and Jacob, before the law of tithing was given, they already give it voluntarily as a tithe.  Whether it is a law or not, tithing is still relevant, living and active. And tithing in the first place is tithing itself. Now if God tells us to do so, we should obey.  It is not the giving and the amount we give that really matters most but the OBEDIENCE of His command. Every word that comes from the mouth of God is a law in itself.  Thus, if God said that we should give our tithe then we should do so. And this we should tell to our broth ers and sisters in the Church.

May the Lord Christ and God JESUS bless you with His peace!


        Dear Becca:  Well, if you believe you should obey God, then why don't you?  Did God every command anyone to tithe MONEY?  No He didn't. Only farmers and herdsmen tithed. Nothing else was ever titheable in Israel.  Fishermen did not tithe; basket makers did not tithe; gold miners did not tithe; the hired hands who worked in the fields and were paid a wage IN MONEY, did not tithe.

        Abraham did NOT tithe anything of his own, not even his farm products or herds, NEVER!

        And Jacob told God plainly that the ONLY way that he would give a tenth BACK to God is if God first gave him a HUNDRED PERCENT of all his wealth. Jacob said in effect--Make me filthy rich and I will give you back a tenth. So much for the modern Church and their damnable tithing doctrine.

        No one ever was taught to tithe to Christ's church. All gave freely if they had it to give, and if they didn't, they gave nothing. There was NO obligatory TEN PERCENT law of tithing. Paul never taught tithing or took tithes from the Gentile Churches.  The New Testament Church of Jesus Christ never practiced "tithing" until the Catholic Church made it a law in the 5 th century!

        God be with you,

        Ray

Is it possible that Becca actually read the articles on tithing in their entirety?

Peace,

Joe
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phazel

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2008, 12:43:45 PM »

I have found that there are two types of people who will argue for tithing being a new covenant law.

1. Church leaders who get paid.

2. People who are financially prosperous and believe it is from giving their 10%


The 2nd group fall into what I call the positive side of the LAW of AVERAGES.    You could do a private study of any group of individuals and you would find that in any group who faithfully tithed that some would gain financially some would remain static and some would decline in financial status.


Biblically,  that study would be a contradiction to the concept often heard in churches.  They will tell you that the scriptures tell us that we can test God on the matter of tithing.  They will imply that it has nothing to do with the heart and that this is just how God works, you tithe you will prosper.


This is what they will say at the MOMENT of trying to get you to put money in the plate , bucket, what have you.


When you are not financially increased this is when they will cite all the qualifiers.  "Well, God doesn't promise that he will bless you right away"   "God doesn;t always bless us with money"   Yada yada yada.



Find me one church that has anyone who has financially decreased after giving their tithe  doing the offering time telling everyone how blessed they are to give their tithe and you will have witnessed a miracle.   :)


It might have happened,  if someone here has witnessed such a thing I think it would be an interesting story to find out about that churches doctrine. 














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hillsbororiver

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2008, 01:02:05 PM »



The 2nd group fall into what I call the positive side of the LAW of AVERAGES.    You could do a private study of any group of individuals and you would find that in any group who faithfully tithed that some would gain financially some would remain static and some would decline in financial status.



Great point phazel,

Income confusion

By Thomas Sowell

Anyone who follows the media has probably heard many times that the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and incomes of the population in general are stagnating. Moreover, those who say such things can produce many statistics, including data from the Census Bureau, which seem to indicate that.

On the other hand, income tax data recently released by the Internal Revenue Service seem to show the exact opposite: People in the bottom fifth of income-tax filers in 1996 had their incomes increase by 91 percent by 2005. 

You can read it all here;

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell112007.php3

The law of average indeed does flow in favor of the tithing churches, of course as people age and gain experience they become more valuable to employers thus a gain in net income!

Peace,

Joe
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dogcombat

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2008, 02:44:58 PM »

Another example: note Ray's response about reading with "an open mind".

Your Teachings

You are ridiculous... There is nothing sound about it. You use scripture completely out of context and make it say what you want. Satan can use scripture. I have heard a sermon on Ezekiel 37 and you're wrong. And the whole attitude of your teachings are so negative and prideful. Nothing attracts me to the Lord in your teachings... I've wasted my time...


Dear Adam:  How stupid do you think I am?  When I see a book, an article, a TV show, a web site, that is "ridiculous, nothing sound, wrong, negative, prideful, nothing appealing, a waste of time," the last thing on  this God's earth that I would do is take the time to write them!  Give me a break.  You read some things that angered you, and not because they were "ridiculous or prideful or negative," but because you could NOT contradict what I said with the Scriptures. But you will continue to believe these "damnable heresies" (II Pet. 2:1) before you would ever admit that you have been sucked into this worldwide system of Babylon the Great, and you have no desire to "come OUT of her My people" (Rev. 18:4).  Just letting you know that you don't fool me and I can see through you like a window pane.  Do yourself a favor, and read the material on our site with an open mind and an open Bible, and see who it is that is guilty of "twisting" the Scriptures.

God be with you,

Ray


An open mind can be the learning kind.

Ches
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Samson

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2008, 05:01:04 PM »

Hello Ches,

                I'm with you about these detractors not reading Rays' entire information on any particular subject they Question or worse yet, making an attach against his teachings and labeling him a Heretic or something like that. In other recent posts at this forum discussing Rays E-mails, I've emphatically made that same observation, perhaps they start to read and upon reading something totally foreign to what they've been taught, it immediately triggers an emotional reaction and all objectivity is lost. You appear to be a rational and objective type person tending to fully examine a viewpoint before jumping to conclusions, I tend to be the same. Arcturus rightfully quoted John. 9:41, that can definetely apply here, I thought of Proverbs. 18:13 " When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears it, that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation. " In this case its' reading about a matter. I also like: Proverbs.12:18;10:19;14:6. One last thought, I'm amazed how many have such a great concern over Tithing, until recently, I didn't know people believed in Tithing for Christians, I never did, only heard about a few denominations that advocated such a view. Especially in this country, where Morals are at an all time Low, many of these people that E-mail Ray don't seem to bring that issue up too often, aside from some E-mails regarding Homosexuality, like the one mentioned today. When on the attach, often the self-righteous will attach ones' Moral Character, they are unable to do that to Ray, in all likelihood they have tried and were unsuccessfull, so what people usually do in these cases, is to resort to Plan B, attach the teachings. While the Morals of people are at an all time Low, people worry about Tithing. I know whats important to different people varies from person to person, the whole thing just seems like " straining the Gnat and Gulping down the Camel".

                                       Just my Thoughts and nothing more, Samson.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2008, 05:26:39 PM »

Hi Samson

The Gnat and the Camel got me thinking.. :)
This is all in the Plan of God. That is amazing! EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is in the Plan of God. NO ONE is excluded! 8) Those who can read and those who think they can read. Those who do know and those who think they know. Those who do perceive and those who are blind. God is so good to all of us!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 05:29:44 PM by Arcturus »
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dogcombat

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 09:53:54 AM »

The recent email to Ray called "Doctrine", is another example of some people who won't bother to R-E-A-D.  I'm not making light of this person's blindness.  But, I want to show how far God has brought us from that miserable line of thought.   Like this person IS, a lot of us WERE.  I know I still dispise many of the scriptures.  However, I ask God to grant His mercy on people like this person. 

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11047.0.html

Ches
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: If Only They Would R-E-A-D.....
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 11:57:02 AM »


Hello Dogcombat,

Ray gave the person a lot to think about. Ray pulled out all the stops. It had to have taken enormous love and effort for Ray to point out every witness he worte down for the person to consider. If not this then that. If not that then this and on and on. Ray gives and gives. I can feel Ray's love for the poor blind lost soul that cried out to him. Ray certainly answered in a way that describes, pressed down, shaken together and pouring over with hope for this person that God would through the foolishness of preaching, grant him to believe and repent and turn to sound mindedness to believe in God.

God will have Mercy, of that I am certain.

Arc
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