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Author Topic: judge not  (Read 6119 times)

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dewey

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judge not
« on: February 23, 2008, 08:50:28 PM »

As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt , if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.
    How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5] And just what was it that Jesus said about judging?  He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just. With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .
  Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use.  May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?
   In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people

Dewey .
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: judge not
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 09:35:14 PM »

As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt , if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.
    How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5] And just what was it that Jesus said about judging?  He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just. With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .
  Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use.  May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?
   In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people

Dewey .

Theirs a difference between judgeing someone and exposeing those who countradict and preaching with sound doctrine.

After all, was it not God who said;

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." (Proverbs 27:5)

Or as the New century version puts it;

"It is better to correct someone openly than to have love and not show it."

Will you openly rebuke someone who is wrong so that they may learn by God's grace and mercy which is showing them open love or will you continualy turn a blind eye to their errors only hurting them through secret love?

This is what i come to understand through the countless time's i've been accused of judgeing others because i won't stand for the wicked doctrine of demons they preach.

"You are judgeing me" they scream. No, i'm not judgeing you, God's Word is.

With love in Christ,

Alex
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Martinez

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Re: judge not
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2008, 11:41:15 PM »

As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt , if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.
    How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5] And just what was it that Jesus said about judging?  He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just. With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .
  Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use.  May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?
   In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people

Dewey .

Hey there Dewey.

All I have to say about this particular subject is this, go and read Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and see what Jesus had to say to those who believed differently than He did.
To those who were humble and seeking the truth He was gracious and loving, but to those who would pervert the truth and had no intrest in seeking the truth He was fiery and indignant and rightfully so.

If it was merely a matter believing something different that would be fine, but they believe differently because they have no intrest in the truth, they have no interest in everyone being brought into God's family, they would be perfectly happy with billions screaming their guts out in indescribable pain just so they can have there pie in the sky, it's the way of the flesh!
Go and have a look at some of the countries where millions go hungry because their government is corrupt, is this not the exact same scenario being played as we speak?

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Kat

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Re: judge not
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 12:09:26 AM »


Hi Dewey,

As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt , if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.

I read all the posts too and I am not aware of anybody speaking of someone as to almost 'compare them to dirt'  ??? 

We do express our feelings that we should not remain part of a system that teaches heresy and blasphemes by teaching God will torture most of humanity in real fire for eternity. 
We get the term 'Babylon' from Revelation (Rev. 14:8; 16:19; 17:5; 18:2,10,21), which I believe is a proper term for the apostate church.  But we express this towards the system and not the individuals. 
Some of us have mentioned that we still have loved ones in the church, and you are so mistaken if you think we feel these people are not as good as we are.  I have not seen that in any of the posts and I wonder why you make these kind of accusations. 

We have this fellowship so that we can share with each other and help one another with our life experiences, which includes coming out of the church.  But we do not want there to be criticism of individials and I don't think there has been. 
Now if you have a specific complaint where this was done, then certainly let a mod. know and it will be checked into.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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musicman

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Re: judge not
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 12:11:20 AM »

I think what Dewey is trying to say is that we are basically taking part in gossip at the expense of those still in Babylon.  And yes Dewey, they are in Babylon.  They are blind and most are so afraid of not having their perfect happiness for eternity that they are willing to accept a god of failure and torture.  

Is it right that we poke fun at their ridiculous doctrines when we aren't actually speaking to these lost in Babylon?  Maybe not.  But we are also reminding ourselves where most of us used to be.  

I for one, feel contempt for those who would be OK with much of my family and humanity suffering for all eternity with no hope of salvation.  These hell believers should be losing their minds for such a belief.  Why aren't they screaming for the world to repent?  Why are they able to carry on with their lives believing that they will be eternally happy while billions will be screaming in fire or at the very least, separated from our God?

Sometimes laughter is the best medicine when thinking of such horrible perspectives.  By the way, I don't believe that dirt will be saved in the end, therefore, these lost Babylonians are definitely not dirt.

I know we are to love all people.  May God give me this ability in His time.
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Little Joe

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Re: judge not
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2008, 01:04:32 AM »

As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon. Almost to compare them to dirt , if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.
    How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5] And just what was it that Jesus said about judging?  He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just. With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .
  Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use.  May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?
   In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people

Dewey .

Hey there Dewey.

All I have to say about this particular subject is this, go and read Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and see what Jesus had to say to those who believed differently than He did.
To those who were humble and seeking the truth He was gracious and loving, but to those who would pervert the truth and had no intrest in seeking the truth He was fiery and indignant and rightfully so.

If it was merely a matter believing something different that would be fine, but they believe differently because they have no intrest in the truth, they have no interest in everyone being brought into God's family, they would be perfectly happy with billions screaming their guts out in indescribable pain just so they can have there pie in the sky, it's the way of the flesh!
Go and have a look at some of the countries where millions go hungry because their government is corrupt, is this not the exact same scenario being played as we speak?

I don't have any problem with using harsh language in describing some of the religious leaders of our day, just like Jesus did in His day.  I am talking about the widow robbing mega-church, T.V. evangelists types.  I do have a problem with using harsh language in describing the average Joe Blow church goer who is trying his best to serve God based on the knowledge he does have, much like the multitudes were in Jesus time.   I was there only a few months ago, and many of my friends are still there.  I think we should be careful about painting too broad a brush when it comes to the religious system out there.   I consider being in it at one time part of God's plan for my life, and I did learn some valuable truths in it, but there came a time when I had to move on based upon what the Lord was revealing to me, and so here I am.  Remember, we wouldn't even know the truths we now hold so dear if it wasn't for the Holy Spirit of God revealing them to us.  For some reason, they are still in it, and God is working in their lives, just like He was working in my life and many of you before we came to the understanding we have now.  I see God drawing people out, so maybe we should be careful about the way we post so it doesn't seem like were coming down to hard on that average Joe Blow church goer, and lay the issue at the feet of the real problem - the hypocritical leadership in the religious system, just like Jesus did. 
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: judge not
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2008, 03:44:46 AM »

Hi Dewy

I believe you have recieved some pretty Scripturally sound and sincere responses to your post from the members.  :) I hope you can recieve some food for your thoughts from my perspective.

I have chosen to respond to you line by line.

My responce to what you are saying is in blue font. You say....

As I read all the posts that have been posted lately, most of them seem to have been directed toward the churches around the world .

Why have a problem with this. Most of the people who will go to Jesus will be told “Depart from Me!” These “most of the people” are clearly defined in Ray’s teachings as being those Church loving, God defying people of Christendom. They are not the people from Japan or Russia or England or etc etc but the people who confess Jesus is the Son of God but who merchandise out His Word and take captive to their doctrines of error millions of people. They will all have to repent. The followers and the leaders. God has said Come out lest you share in Her plagues. Who is going to share in Her plagues? The followers are going to share in her plagues. Is God unjust. Is God wrong to assign a plague to a follower of error? Is God unfair for telling us that error and the idol of false teaching will be destroyed and this will occur in a unpleasant way for those who uphold them.

There is a thread discussing our idols being turned into powder. That is no walk in the park. Do we resent God for chastisement? Do we resent God for showing His love through judgment and chastisement and eventually wrath. If we do then we go against God not man.

The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different,

“A little bit different is not just a LITTLE BIT different. Satan said to Jesus just bow to me ONE time, just a little bit! Beware the yeast of the Pharisee. One needs only a drop of arsenic to poison the whole loaf.


 and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon.

This is not a right but a scriptural truth and discernment. Either you are in Babylon or you are not.

Almost to compare them to dirt ,

So what is dirt. Is it not dust? What does Satan eat? The dust. What is the carnal mind to Satan. Breakfast lunch and dinner and all the snacks in-between. God made it so. Are we to resent and despise the goodness of God. I do not believe so. :) Satan has also had me for lunch and snacks on me occasionally too! I am still carnal. :( That is the sad part....We are all still in the process of becoming pure,perfect and Christ like. We are all still learning and growing and being trained into righteousness. It is not a done work yet. God uses Satan to bring us an experience of evil. From this we are humbled and we learn. Non enjoy this but some recognise God is the one who is our Father who is correcting us and disciplining us. Some reject God and try to escape chastisement. Scripture tells us not to resent God but to receive His chastisements and corrections knowing that God knows what is best for us and that He loves us and corrects us for our own good.

if you think that I am wrong go back and read some of your earlier posts.

Who is the accuser of the brethren? Are you accusing us? :(


    How soon we forget, just what it was that Jesus said when he spoke to his followers . [MT7:3 thru 5]

Are you aware that there is a teaching on this? It is profound, humbling and brilliant. For me, it is a teaching that shows we are all the Beast. Do you know that we are all the beast?

And just what was it that Jesus said about judging?

I think all His teachings about the Kingdom of God were about His Judgement. The wheat and the tare, the old wine and the new, the few and the many.

 He came to judge no one, but if he was to judge it would be just.

Precisely and we know how He judges and will judge and He changes not. He will not judge as man judges because Christ sees the condition of the weak heart of man and man will face the consequences for that and will learn righteousness.

With that I say stop judging the people of the world, lest ye be judged .

Judgment has two sides. The Judgment of Christ leans towards correction. The judgment of man leans towards Hell, eternal torment and the deception of eternal condemnation. For those in Christ there is no condemnation to mans damning extinction, annihilation and endless separation from God or Hell of eternal torment. No such thing. Did you read NOEL NOEL….no hell no hell!
Correction yes. Discernment yes. Test the spirits yes!
:)

  Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people

That is a put down.   :( Are you trying to be offensive with this comment? Some how I do not think so but I believe you feel that you have been put down and you should not feel it if you are.  To speak above the understanding of most people is what Jesus did. He spoke ABOVE the understanding of EVERYONE!

does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use. 

Non of us here profess to be scholars or are trying to impress others. To do so would be a hollow victory indeed. Our communications here are sincere, honest, open and without hypocrisy or manipulation.

May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ?

Many people will not understand what we are saying. Those who do understand are given to understand by the Spirit of Christ. Those who do not understand no man or language can make understand no matter how simple the communication. Babylon still does not understand or believe or see that God is Love. Many here in the Forum testify that our understanding of the deep insights and teachings and revelations we have here via Ray, are experienced in layers of understanding. I do not think anyone of us has fully GOT IT yet. It is a process of learning and growing. It is not a quick fix but a life time path of study, effort, suffering and taking up our cross to not only become academic and religious hobbyists but to become like Jesus. First we have to know HIM. That is why we are all here. We are coming to KNOW Him through the Truth of the teachings here. This is our bond of fellowship and unity of mind. It is Christ.

 It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it ?

No...NO! What we have here is not babble. I would caution you that you reconsider your comparison with what is the knowledge acquaintance and fellowship with the Truth and what is not. What we have here is not like speaking in tongues at all.

   In the name of Jesus Christ, Paula and I try to love all people

Perhaps trying to know, accept, understand and therefore love God will bring the consequence of success in loving people. One can not love people without loving He who made them in the first place. God is first here. That is the right way, the way of the Scriptures and the way of Jesus Christ.

If there is any word or sentence you do not understand or would like further explanation in order to come to a deeper comprehension on what is said in any of the Forum posts, I do not believe anyone will find offence or object to any questions you might have. Assumptions and accusations are not questions.



   "And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge  and in all JUDGEMENT" Phil. 1:9

Peace be to you

Arcturus
:)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 04:10:23 AM by Arcturus »
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Beloved

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Re: judge not
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2008, 04:30:59 AM »

The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different, and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon

WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE YOU REFERRING TO? The last thing that many of us here at BT would consider of ourselves would be that we more Holy than anyone...we know from the scriptures that we are all sinners who God has shown unbelievable mercy to.

WE DO NOT HATE THESE PEOPLE.....AFTERALL THEY WILL ALL BE OUR BRETHERN....WE DO HOWEVER HATE THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES that men promote and try so hard to prove that run contrary to the very nature of God, and we will always let them know that all that they teach is contrary to His gracious Spirit and that they are in error.

Believe a little bit different    ::)

And instead of preaching a false gospel to sinners, instead of holding up before them fancied horrors which they may escape (with a short sinners prayer), the true Gospel (God has a plan for all....in an orderly arrangement many called few chosen, first will be last etc) it tells them of the unsearchable riches of Christ, of the glory of the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of righteousness, peace (not of carnality and prosperity that they promote to many). I see a BIG DIFFERENCE NOW    

Good Point ALex They are Blind and do not know it...guess what we were too.

Not that I do not see the humor in it but Musicman I do not "poke fun" at their doctrines ...this is serious....This forum is a place for us to learn and recognize and be able to verbalize the folly of our own past foolishishness that we all were into when we were trapped in Babylon and now to be able to stand and defend our own belief


Dewey this "mushey gushey love" you seem to seem to spout does not seem to be a righteous love because  He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives" (Heb. 12:6).  Ray basic papers shows that Jesus did not deal with the Pharsees with a wimpy love but reproved them quite harshly and even publically embarassed them. Is there something about Ray teachings that you do not understand?

Another thing, It is Gods word that is reproving todays church ...it is not RAY and it is not any of us. That is why many people who write nasty emails to him cannot refute what he states. 

"When Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9). God's judgments, whether upon saints, nations, or the wicked in general are all corrective in nature, accomplished by the motivation of His nature which is LOVE.

In the first chapter of Hebrews the Father speaks to Jesus Christ, as He heaps this great encomium upon Him: "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Your Kingdom."  Why? "You has loved righteousness, and HATED INIQUITY; therefore God, even your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows" (Heb. 1:8-9).

The forum is a place for us to mature and hopefully learn to become become more Chrsit like in nature, we also need to love with the same love and also hate iniquity and sin like He did too. 

Fear is the weapon of man and of law. The church uses it to gain power and to get money . Love is the all-conquering sceptre of God. 'God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and of power and of a sound mind.

We are in this world, we are to discern the things of this world...

Judging entails passing a sentance......
EVERYONE AT BIBLE TRUTHS KNOWS THAT GOD HAS SAVED TEHM ALL .....
There is NO Judging of people going on here....only of actions, deeds and doctrines.


Just because some of us have the knowledge to speak above the understanding of most people does not mean that we should post with the words that only a scholar would use.  May I suggest that you people that do ask yourself are there people out there that won't understand what I am saying ? It is like speaking in tongues, if no one understands then why do it

Because we are commanded to do it. We are to be... the Light...the Salt ...the Truth.....not to be loved by all men....Many will reject what we will tell tell them and we are to expect persecution.

Beloved


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Craig

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Re: judge not
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2008, 09:58:58 AM »

Quote
The sad part is that most people think that these billions of people are not as good or holy as thy simply because they believe in something a little bit different,

I can't see how you can think this.  As God has given me the truths of His word, it has made me to see just how bad I am, it gives me the complete understanding of how Paul stated he was the chiefest of sinners.  When I was shown just how wicked the beast is and who it worships you can't help but be humbled and knocked off the pedestal that Babylon put us on before being called out.  The people who think others are not as good as them is those who worship in the synagogue of satan.  Some of those are blinded, and are our family and friends, but the hateful ones who write Ray have been shown some truth and reject it.  And I, after seeing and saying this realize I am more a sinner then they are because God has shown me what sin really is, now I am without excuse and pray daily He will grind me to powder and replace "me" with Christ in me.

Quote
and so that gives you the right to call them the people of Babylon.

The "right" comes through the Word of God, if you don't like that then you will have to take that up with His Word.
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Sorin

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Re: judge not
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2008, 11:34:49 AM »

This "mushey gushey love" that some people seem to spout, makes me sick. And what I've noticed is; those who spout it are often the biggest hypocrites, because since it was all "mushey and gushey" it wasn't anything more than PRETEND LOVE. Going with the flow, the trend of Babylon.

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Samson

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Re: judge not
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2008, 12:39:25 PM »

Hello Everyone,

                     This is a most interesting Discussion taking place, before I reply, maybe I should meditate alittle and reflect on the other comments, again, before " inserting my foot in my mouth " and be cautious as a Serpent and innocent as a Dove(Matt.10:16). Dewey, if in fact, I offended you by any comments I've made at various posts, please accept my Apologies. Colossians. 4:6 mentions that are words should always be with graciousness, seasoned with salt.  I concur with the balanced and objective comments made by Craig, Kat, Arcturus and others responding to this post. The main ingredient to me is to separate the individual and the Church Systems. I love the individuals out there, that are scattered around and tossed around with every wind of deceit and trickery of men, but I don't Love their Religious systems. At least in my case, I was definitely more likely to be Judgemental of people prior to discovering these truths at are Forum. Its' part of my spiritual diet to read every new E-mail Ray receives and I notice that their are times when he's harsely critized and sentenced to Hell by an E-mailer and remains SILENT in response or just says BRILLIANT OR ONE OF HIS OTHER FAMOUS ONE WORD LINES OR PHRASES. Ray attempts to exemplify Jesus in how he responds to a variety of people, based on the situation and its' context. We all remember how Jesus answered different people differently, depending on who they were and at times wouldn't say anything(Matt.27:11-14; or said very little(Luke.22:63-70).

                I haven't personally seen any evidence of anyone at this Site Judging individuals. Some of the people that visit our Site, at times, are more upset that God is going to Eventual Save Everyone than we are at them for telling us we are condemned to Endless Torments for Our " Heresy ". We LOVE THEM AND WERE GLAD THEIR GOING TO BE EVENTUALLY SAVED, WHEIR AS THEY HATE US FOR BELIEVING IT. Whenever I get into conversations with some people about God eventually saving everyone, its' almost as if they are more angry about that happening than God roasting and toasting the majority of people. With those that respond like that, its' better to remain silent and leave it in Gods' hands, they apparently aren't ready to embrace these wonderfull truths at this time. My main objective is to get them to the Site, the information at this Site can do more for them, than I can. This Site is an escape for many of us from the ignorance and desparate state of affairs taking place out there.

                    Its true, Little Joe, that our former religious experiences gave us some truth and in some cases directed are attention to the Scriptures and God used that as preparation for are journey to Bible Truths and their are people out there who are sincere and trying to serve God within their particular Church systems. Alot of us came out of those Religious Systems.

                                 If I said anything disturbing in this response, it was not my intention.

                                                    Your Brother in Christ, Samson.
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rk12201960

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Re: judge not
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2008, 12:49:52 PM »

Hi Samson and all.
What I see here is unity! Most thinking in one mindset.
God has made a bad thing positive, as I look at the love we have for each other, I ask where can you find love like this outside The Living Church of God?

Blessing to all and yes you too dewey.

Gods speed
Randy
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cherokee

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Re: judge not
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2008, 12:50:30 PM »

I'm not the brightest light in the pack when it comes to understanding, in fact I am the dimmest, but I have never read a post, that with God's timing, I have not come to understand, nor have I read one where anyone thinks they are better or holier than anyone else.

However, I have come to see that sometimes these post are like the Scriptures and Ray's teachings. One may have to read them more than once to fully understand what is being said.

Suzie
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rk12201960

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Re: judge not
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2008, 12:56:20 PM »

Hi Susie,
Your light seems bright to me, wanna turn that puppy down a bit? ;D

More unity. what a BLESSING

Gods speed sis.
Randy

Good post!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 12:57:51 PM by Randy »
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Sorin

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Re: judge not
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2008, 01:53:40 PM »

Some people seem to have a problem with Ray's sarcasm, but from what I've noticed-these are the "mushy gushy love" types that
I spoke of in my earlier post, which will back stab you in an instant {spiritually speaking of course}. They condemn Ray or me, or some of you for things we say, which wasn't up to their "mushy gushy love" standards, by doing what? Back stabbing, talking harshly about you behind your back, and I mean, really judging the persons they speak of, not like what we are doing here. Scrutinizing the individual's man-made doctrines. So yeah, this "mushy gushy love" stuff makes me sick, because I know where it comes from.

Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things (as in mushy gushy love), prophesy deceits: Isaiah 30:10


Peace,
Sorin

« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 02:12:01 AM by Sorin »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: judge not
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2008, 02:09:26 PM »


http://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm
"THE KISS OF DEATH"

[Is your love pure or fake?]

I hear a lot of "huggie huggie kissie kissie" pious platitudes from the mouths of today’s religious hobbyists. Personally, it makes me a little ill in my midsection. Most of it is as phony as a three-dollar bill. Could you be guilty of using this emotional charade to deceive those you wish to impress?

There is nothing wrong with hugs, as I am quite fond of them myself. And there is nothing wrong with proper kissing. Paul instructs the assemblies to greet each with "an holy kiss" four times, and Peter instructs its use once, as a "kiss of charity."

The Greek word used is "philema." A "holy" kiss is merely a pure, sacred, ceremonial kiss—a simple kiss. Men no longer kiss men as a form of greeting non-family members in most western cultures—I’m personally kinda glad of that!

People also engage in "hugs and kisses" in their speech and writing. And this too can be fine and acceptable depending upon how it is done. At sixty-five, I still put a few xxxx’s and oooo’s at the bottom of a birthday card to my wife.

However, there is another way that hugs and kisses are used and overdone in which it is a camouflaged front to mask the real person that is no more holy than was Judas.

Had the twelve other Apostles already received the Holy Spirit of God, they would not have had to ask Jesus "who" is was that was about to betray Him—they would have known. Thank God that it is not possible to "deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).

Like Satan’s ministers of righteousness (II Cor. 11:15), these deceivers are wolves, but they don’t come as wolves. These false teachers and deceivers:

"…come to you in SHEEP’S clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matt. 7:15).

But you could spot one of these "wolves" a mile off, couldn’t you? Just look for the GIANT TEETH that Little Red Riding Hood encountered, right?

"O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched [Gk: ‘to fascinate by false representations] you…" (Gal. 3:1).

The "wolves" COME IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING! You don’t see their teeth. They don’t show their teeth. They only show you a huggie huggie kissie kissie pious religious smile. THAT my friends, that pious front, IS the "sheep’s clothing." Wolves BITE, and their bite can be deadly:

"But if you bit and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another" (Gal. 5:15).

Now then, where are we to find these "wolves and sheep’s clothing" coming with hugs and kisses to deceive and devour? Well, wherever the SHEEP are found.

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous [savage] wolves enter in among YOU, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men [and women] arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:29-30).

Didn’t we all witness this ourselves in recent months? Are all the wolves gone now? Of course not—there will always be wolves wherever there are sheep.

I’m warning you: Wolves come in "sheep’s clothing," full of smiles, and hugs, and kisses. You will not see their teeth until it is too lake.

Judas was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The apostles saw a sheep—Jesus saw a wolf. What was Judas’ ultimate sheep’s camouflage? Why, wasn’t it a simple, sincere, pure, godly "kiss?" Think again.

"Now he that betrayed Him give them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, the same is He: hold Him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed Him" (Matt. 26:48-49).

You have all seen this drama acted out many times in films—a simple little peck on Jesus’ cheek. Oh really?

The five Scriptures using the word "kiss" from Paul and Peter, always used the Greek word "philema" which means "kiss" and nothing else. In Luke 22:48 we read this:

"But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betray you the Son of man with a kiss [Gk: a simple ‘philema’ kiss]?"

But in Matt. 26:48, we find something totally different. Judas told the elders and chief priest:

"…whomsoever I shall [PHILEO—passionate fondness] kiss, that same is He…"

Judas did not have a "philema" kiss in mind at all. The "kiss" in Matt. 26:48 is a "phileo" kiss, and it means a fond, affectionate, passionate kiss, not a simple "philemo kiss." And the elders and high priest knew the different in these two words. One was a peck on the cheek, but Judas determined to use a more a passionate, huggie huggie kissie kissie display in his attempt to betray Jesus to the devouring and ravaging wolves.

This is really intriguing stuff. Now after Judas tells the priest and elders what kind of a kiss he will give Jesus [a phileo kiss] to betray Jesus, He actually delivers this kiss. And how does he do that? He does it with yet another Greek word for kiss, which is, "kataphileo" mean "to kiss EARNESTLY."

This "kataphileo kiss" is used three other times in Scriptures:

Luke 7:45—"You gave me no kiss [no affectionate ‘phileo’ kiss, Jesus admonishes His disciples] but this woman since the time I came in has not ceased to kiss [‘kataphileo kisses’—earnestly] My feet."

Luke 15:20—"And he [the prodigal son] arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him [earnestly and passionately with a ‘kataphileo kisses’]."

Acts 20:37—"And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul’s neck, and kissed him [with ‘cataphileo kisses’ of great passion and earnest]."

Is it not abundantly clear that this super emotional use of hugs and kisses was used only on the most RARE occasions of deep and profound emotional circumstances? But this is not proper conduct for everyday behavior. See these over-pious charlatans for what they are. Be suspect of those who use super-pious and sanctimonious hugs and kisses every day of the week.

Now to the Judas Kiss of Death:

"And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, Master; and KISSED HIM."

The Greek is "kisses"—multiple kisses, with ‘kataphilio kisses, just as we find in every single use of this word in Scriptures I showed above.

No, Judas did not betray Jesus with a peck on the cheek; he deceitfully delivered a "huggie huggie kissie kissie, fraudulent hugs and KISSES OF DEATH!

What must we learn from all this? Whenever we pretend to be Christ-like but it’s all a charade, we too are guilty of giving Christ a Judas kiss of death. What a disgusting display of the carnal mind and flesh, Judas has left us. Some have vengeance in their heart, others vanity, others bitterness and hatred, and yet others uncontrollable sins of the flesh, but they try to camouflage their evils with a plethora of hugs and kisses to all.

Don’t be afraid to hug; don’t be afraid to kiss, but beware of such phony displays of pious emotions, as they could be your "KISS OF DEATH."

A spiritual hug to you all, from my heart,

Ray

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Phil3:10

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Re: judge not
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2008, 09:38:30 PM »

Arcturus,
I so agree with your view of today's church system. If real discernment were practiced, instead of the gooey, gushy, hugs, kissses and false piety we would have real revival within all church systems.  Each denomination feels it is right in it's own mind. Each judges the other and most are happy those outside their belief system are hell bound.
I find Ray's sarcasm to be most instructive when he addresses the people of Babylon. It does break my heart when I witness ever day comments about pastor so-in-so and his great sermon, the gossip within all church systems, and the pious efforts to be more like CHRIST.
I am so thankful that I don't feel that I have to try to be accepted by GOD, just to know HE has me where He wants me right now and what HIS love really is. I also am thankful for this forum as it has given me the wonderful opportunity to share with like-minded believers.
Phil3:10
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dewey

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Re: judge not
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2008, 11:51:38 PM »

Hey forum friends , I would have said brothers and sisters , but it seems  that some do not think of me like that .I have opened up a can of worms . I can see a lot of upset people , that was not my intention. Tomorrow Lord willing Iwill tell each and every one of you , just exactly what I was speaking of ,I hopefully can tell you that I have not judged any one. I have a lengthy  post but I will not go into that tonight ,
      At the risk of being  MUSHY GUSHY i am going to say,

 I LOVE Y'ALL!!  Yep thats right,, yes you arc , and sorin and randy ,open your eyes craig .

 Dewey said it
   
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: judge not
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2008, 01:30:07 AM »

Hey forum friends , I would have said brothers and sisters , but it seems  that some do not think of me like that .I have opened up a can of worms . I can see a lot of upset people , that was not my intention. Tomorrow Lord willing Iwill tell each and every one of you , just exactly what I was speaking of ,I hopefully can tell you that I have not judged any one. I have a lengthy  post but I will not go into that tonight ,
      At the risk of being  MUSHY GUSHY i am going to say,

 I LOVE Y'ALL!!  Yep thats right,, yes you arc , and sorin and randy ,open your eyes craig .

 Dewey said it
   


Well i can't wait for that post! I don't see anyone upset here but i think ill wait and see what you have before i jump the gun. =]

God bless,

Alex
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: judge not
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2008, 02:01:10 AM »

Hi Phil 3 :10

I am grateful that Ray has highlighted the truth of where Satan resides and where his throne is. I had no idea of this important fact that is shown to us in God's Word that does not lie.

When Jesus was speaking of Pergamos which is one of the seven Church's which are all ONE and the same, Jesus says quote : Rev 2 : 13 I know where you live - A PLACE WHERE SATAN SITS ENTHRONED,  you are clinging to and holding fast My Name, and you did not deny My faith, even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed IN YOUR MIDST - WHERE SATAN DWELLS.

I think this Scripture is so enlightening especially the part about "in your midst" as we read and learn that we are the Beast who displaces Christ on the throne within ourselves until such time as our house falls and we repent.

I believe Paul offers the second witness to the above Scripture in 1 Cor 10 : 20 ....what the pagans sacrifice they offer in effect to demons, to evil spiritual powers and not to God at all. I do not want you to fellowship and be partners with diabolical spirits....

For me, Gods call to COME OUT OF HER is plain. The membership in the participation with diabolical evil spirits, do not want to come out. They believe in their mentally positioned idols of Christ. They fantasise on who Christ is not knowing HIM or His Power and they worship Satan not knowing Satan and his deception. This is all in God's Plan.

Their deceptions, what they are willing to do to cling to them and how far they will go to hold onto them, this too will be made plane to them but until then, they can only come off their addictions to illusion through and by the Spirit of Christ and even then, they, like us will have to be dragged. :) to repentance.

Ray said somewhere in one of his teachings that he too had to repent before the Truths of God were given to him. We have to know what it is we are repenting of before we can repent and only Gods Spirit provides us through His Goodness, with Repentance. He does the choosing!

We can lead a horse to water but we can not make it drink. It has to know it is thirsty first and comprehend what water is.  :) Babylon believes in itself and does not know, realize or understand that it is Rev 3 : 17 wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked.

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)

« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 02:09:25 AM by Arcturus »
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