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Author Topic: First Shall be Last  (Read 2805 times)

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Susan

  • Guest
First Shall be Last
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:10:15 PM »

Has Ray covered what it means, "The First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First"? It is tied in with the Many Called but Few Chosen but I haven't seen where he explains in depth the First/Last. I may not have done a proper search.

Thank you,
Susan
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 03:35:38 PM »

All I have seen is that Ray does acknowledge this topic and he knows what it is about but he has not yet revealed its deeper meanings.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2008, 11:33:33 AM »

i always wondered about this:

Hbr 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:


 Hbr 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



blessings in Yeshua
chuckt
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2008, 11:45:45 AM »

Hi Chuck,

This is from
http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men [all the patriarchs of the Old Testament] have desired to see those things which you see, and have NOT seen them, and to hear those things which you hear, and have NOT heard them" (Matt. 13:10-17).

I doubt that many of my readers are comprehending the marvelous truths contained in the above passages. The prophets THEMSELVES (even Isaiah himself), desired to see these things, but did NOT see them. All of the Apostles and New Testament writers understood that the patriarchs of old including the prophets themselves, did not understand their own prophesies, therefore they were not converted, and they are not saved. These things are for those who come after Christ, not before:

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto YOU [not unto them!]: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the suffering of Christ, and the glory that should follow [not come BEFORE, in their day and time].

"Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto US they did minister [‘for OUR admonition upon whom the ends of the ages are come, I Cor. 10:11] the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto YOU at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:10-13).

Therefore I repeat once more:

"And these all [all the saints and all the prophets, Ver. 32], having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT the promise: God having provided some better thing FOR US, that they without US should NOT be made perfect [be saved]" (Heb. 11:39-40).

These and many more Scriptures prove the Church’s teaching that people who die unsaved will never be saved, is a damnable heresy. Until you concede in your heart that neither the parables nor the interpretation of the parables are literal, you will know no more of the plan of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ than the Apostles did before they were converted and had God’s Holy Spirit.

It appears the elect (with Christ leading the way) will bring the OT Patriarchs to the Kingdom.

Peace,

Joe


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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2008, 11:48:26 AM »

Those of the Old Covenant were given the prophecies first but will not enter the Kingdom until those (elect) of the New Covenant usher them in. Thus last shall be first and first shall be last. I personally believe this verse has multiple layers as does virtually all scripture.

Peace,

Joe
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lilitalienboi16

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2008, 04:09:45 PM »

Has Ray covered what it means, "The First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First"? It is tied in with the Many Called but Few Chosen but I haven't seen where he explains in depth the First/Last. I may not have done a proper search.

Thank you,
Susan

It's like the inverse of a function susan. Take it, and flip it!

Let me give you a few examples of this principle at work.

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The many called are the FIRST. The few chosen are the LAST. So the LAST will be FIRST, and the FIRST will be LAST!

Isreal [after the flesh] was God's chosen people, the FIRST but now it has passed unto the gentiles who are the LAST. Once again, apply that spiritual truth. Now the GENTILES are FIRST and the JEWS [after the flesh] are LAST!

Take a look at this verse. Once again it speaks to this spiritual truth.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So once again the natural is FIRST and the LAST is spiritual. FLIP THAT, now the SPIRITUAL becomes FIRST in God's kingdom and the natural becomes LAST!

The carnal man comes first in us and after that the spiritual man which is Christ. Take that and flip it, now CHRIST is FIRST in importance, power, and the kingdom and the carnal man is LAST or of no importance!

Even in Christ's parables He spoke of this very idea;

Matthew 20:8 "So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first."

Ultimately the spiritual, the elect of God which are last now on this earth in anyone's eyes, will be the FIRST in God's eyes and His Kingdom!

I hope this helps,

God bless,

Alex
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Susan

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2008, 05:41:56 PM »

Thank you everyone, it is awesome to contemplate God's plan and that we all have a part and it is quite humbling that I, who am a nobody, have been brought here by God's grace.

Susan
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 11:38:20 AM »

Those of the Old Covenant were given the prophecies first but will not enter the Kingdom until those (elect) of the New Covenant usher them in. Thus last shall be first and first shall be last. I personally believe this verse has multiple layers as does virtually all scripture.

Peace,

Joe


i love it, thanks !!!! great thread............... :-*


inlove
chuckt
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 11:42:14 AM by chuckt »
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 01:31:37 PM »

I love the way God has made this to be a powerful story line throughout the bible.  The first or elder serves or receives the promise and the last or the younger is given to their flesh in virtually every situation.  From Ismael-Isaac, Essau-Jacob, Joseph's brothers-Joseph, Moses-Joshua, King Saul-David, John the Baptist-Jesus, of course Adam - Jesus, and Physical Israel - Spiritual Israel.  There are other examples all through the bible.  It is more proof of the constant drumming that "many are called (the first) and few are chosen (the last). 

It is similar to there being so many examples in the bible that the majority (many) are always wrong and the minority (few) are always right. (Example - 12 spies in promise land - 10 are wrong - 2 - Joshua and Caleb - are right)
God's word is amazing.

CIY
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Sorin

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 03:56:30 PM »

I love the way God has made this to be a powerful story line throughout the bible.[/b]  The first or elder serves or receives the promise and the last or the younger is given to their flesh in virtually every situation.  From Ismael-Isaac, Essau-Jacob, Joseph's brothers-Joseph, Moses-Joshua, King Saul-David, John the Baptist-Jesus, of course Adam - Jesus, and Physical Israel - Spiritual Israel.  There are other examples all through the bible.  It is more proof of the constant drumming that "many are called (the first) and few are chosen (the last). 

It is similar to there being so many examples in the bible that the majority (many) are always wrong and the minority (few) are always right. (Example - 12 spies in promise land - 10 are wrong - 2 - Joshua and Caleb - are right)
God's word is amazing.

CIY

CIY, you have that all wrong, It says the FIRST WILL BE LAST, Not the "FIRST WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISE". Much like how Physical Israel was the first, but they shall be The Last. That's what it's talking about. Not the first or the elder receiving the promise. Gentiles,
were certainly not the first, but the last. And most Christians are Gentiles, not Jews. And God is calling people out of the church, not synagogue. Therefore The Last {Gentiles} shall be first.

Sorin
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 04:04:02 PM by Sorin »
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2008, 05:00:33 PM »

Hi Sorin

Maybe, just maybe...the first will receive the promise.....last :) :D

The last to receive the promise as in the last gathered at the final harvest, will be first and the first as in the Hebrews to whom Christ came and they received Him not.... will be last. I think that fits.  :)

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
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ciy

  • Guest
Re: First Shall be Last
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2008, 12:53:44 AM »

Thanks Sorin and Arcturus,
Sorry about that.  I was in too big a hurry.  I said that backwards.  The first is last and serves the younger.  The younger is the one who is the shadow of the elect. 
I will edit it below.  It should read:

I love the way God has made this to be a powerful story line throughout the bible.  The first or elder is given to their flesh in virtually every situation and serves the last or the younger who receives the promise or as in the verse becomes the first, the elect.  From Ismael-Isaac, Essau-Jacob, Joseph's brothers-Joseph, Moses-Joshua, King Saul-David, John the Baptist-Jesus, of course Adam - Jesus, and Physical Israel - Spiritual Israel.  There are other examples all through the bible.  It is more proof of the constant drumming that "many are called (the first) and few are chosen (the last). 

It is similar to there being so many examples in the bible that the majority (many) are always wrong and the minority (few) are always right. (Example - 12 spies in promise land - 10 are wrong - 2 - Joshua and Caleb - are right)
God's word is amazing.

CIY


Had a full day and it is late but I believe this reads right now.
CIY
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