Matthew, Mark & Luke

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Everyone,

This is going to be one of those long ones, but not to worry it will be mostly scripture with some comments and questions from me and perhaps you too!

Remember those children's magazines that would have 2 pictures that at first glance looked the same but when you pay closer attention you could find 5 or maybe more differences in the pictures?

Matthew 8


28And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

30And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.

31So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

32And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

33And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.

34And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.


Mark 5


1And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

10And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

11Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

12And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

14And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.

15And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

16And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.

17And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.

18And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.

19Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

20And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

21And when Jesus was passed over again by ship unto the other side, much people gathered unto him: and he was nigh unto the sea.


Luke 8


26And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.

27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.

32And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.

33Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

34When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.

35Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

36They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.

37Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again.

38Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying,

39Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.

40And it came to pass, that, when Jesus was returned, the people gladly received him: for they were all waiting for him.

A quick overview of some of the differences we have in these three accounts of what on the surface is apparently the same event. Are the events different, the perception of events different or are the messages to the readers through the ages and spiritual conditions different?

Right off the bat we have two "countries" that appear in Mark and Luke Gadarenes (Gadara a town East of the Jordan, Strongs G1046); In Matthew it is referred to as Gergesenes (Palestine, Strongs G1086).

In Matthew there are two who are possessed; is it two men, two women, one man & one woman? For some reason this account is gender neutral as well as having an additional demon possessed person.

The dwelling place for the man in Mark is the tombs, in Luke he dwells in the mountains and the tombs, in Matthew there is no reference to where the two "dwelled" but only that they were "coming out of the tombs."

The demons in Matthew ask Jesus "art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" In Mark "I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not." Then in Luke it's "I beseech thee, torment me not." We can see that the demons in Matthew are aware they have a "time" coming and seem surprised that Jesus is there, in Mark it is more like a lawyer making a legal claim" I adjure you...!" In the name of God no less! Then in Luke it is once again more like a plea rather than a legalistic technical motion.

As you can see there are many more but for the sake of keeping this post from getting too bloated and also to gauge whether there is any interest in this I will stop here, feel free or should I say please post your observations and questions, they are very much appreciated, the study of the Gospels and our Lord's time in walking this earth is very worthy of a deeper study. I will end with this, the very last verse in the Gospel of John;

Joh 21:25  And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Kent]

To me it adds (as if that were necessary) to the validity of scripture. Be suspicious when 2 witnesses give the exact same testimony... When 3 give the exact same testimony, at least 2 of them are liars.

It also proves the "errors" in the "Inerrant And Perfect Gods' Word The Mighty King James Authorized Version And All Other Versions Are Of The Devil" idolaters Bible.

JMO 

[rjsurfs]

Hi Joe and all,

This is very interesting... as I do believe the order of the gospels reveal more... as in a progression.  But, I am just starting to see these things so I can't talk too sensibly about it.  I pray that God will give me more understanding... and in the mean time would love to hear more of your thoughts.

I do believe overall that again we are talking about the many (swine) and the few (man - anthropos in Mark)

I also very much like (and you bolded it) the progression of mentioning sea, choked in the sea, and then lake!  I'm convinced that is the lake of fire.

Again, I'm just starting to see the gospels this way... but wanted to at least let you know that I am interested in what you are seeing and look forward to hearing more of your insights.

Bobby

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

Thank you for posting this comparison. We are given the spiritual commandment from God that in order to make spiritual truths clear and compelling we are to quote

TRUTH NUMBER 7

[A] "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; COMPARING [or 'matching'] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13).

Re : TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

You have made visible the application of this insight both practical and applicable! Thank you!

Also as an observation you say : We can see that the demons in Matthew are aware they have a "time" coming and seem surprised that Jesus is there, in Mark it is more like a lawyer making a legal claim" I adjure you...!" In the name of God no less! Then in Luke it is once again more like a plea rather than a legalistic technical motion.

What I find interesting here is that in email responces to Ray, it is clear we are seeing people express the Matthew legal claims in the name of God that Ray stop! I have not seen the Luke plea yet but I think that is just around the corner once the unity of Christ's Mind and Spirit in joy and excitement of His resurrection begins to set in!  Then they will start begging. 



Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[Chris R]

Hi Joe,

I read the account, never really looked that hard at all the versions, I reckon it is somewhat interesting. But i have a unique question for everyone.

These apostles were in fact taught in parables, correct?...They knew that Christ taught in parables only, correct? These apostles did not begin to write the scriptures until AFTER they were converted, correct?

Do we then expect that these apostles would not follow their Master when writing these things down?

Surley these things happened, but what is the ultimate message?
And, were the apostles accounts.....in parable form?

Peace

Chris R

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Joe,

I read the account, never really looked that hard at all the versions, I reckon it is somewhat interesting. But i have a unique question for everyone.

These apostles were in fact taught in parables, correct?...They knew that Christ taught in parables only, correct? These apostles did not begin to write the scriptures until AFTER they were converted, correct?

Do we then expect that these apostles would not follow their Master when writing these things down?

Surley these things happened, but what is the ultimate message?
And, were the apostles accounts.....in parable form?

Peace

Chris R

Hi Chris,

As I have learned from Ray and I believe the Spirit has revealed that the entire bible is a parable, God is in control of His Word and of even the strong delusion that some mistranslations (such as but not limited to "hell") and additions that tend to confuse or hide His Truth.

But even with that being said the Gospel of John while not having any parables per se' is in total a giant parable in itself.

Since we know the bible does not contradict itself, when we see things that "don't add up" or seem inconsistant we need to dig deeper and pray for His Spirit to guide us in our search, for me the fact that the churches gloss over these Gospel differences or give it some sort of physical explanation tells us that there is more to it, something spiritual!

I am going to address the prior posts a bit later today as I am getting ready to head to a meeting (8:30).

Thank you and Peace!

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

To me it adds (as if that were necessary) to the validity of scripture. Be suspicious when 2 witnesses give the exact same testimony... When 3 give the exact same testimony, at least 2 of them are liars.

It also proves the "errors" in the "Inerrant And Perfect Gods' Word The Mighty King James Authorized Version And All Other Versions Are Of The Devil" idolaters Bible.

JMO 

Hi Kent,

Up until about a month or so ago I was of the opinion that the Gospels did have a man made (apostle) influnce on them, different vantage points coupled with their own unique backgrounds produced slightly different takes, this is virtually the same thing I had believed for well over 35 years.

A dear Brother, one who I have seen to have spiritual discernment presented these Gospel accounts as something not due to man's influence but to God's own design and purpose. After studying this for a while and again realizing that God is sovereign over everything these differences became more profound, if you really compare these Words written by the Gospel authors and check them against each other you do tend to see a distinct pattern although I readily admit that all the reasons for this are not totally clear to me yet.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Joe

I noticed that in the books of Mark and  Luke Jarius came to Jesus.

In the book of Matthew  the crowds bring to Jesus a paralyzed man.  who He forgives first and then heals. After that the account of how Jesus called Matthew to follow Him is given.

It appears that the books of Mark and Luke identify the same incident and the book of Matthew a separate one though similar at first glance!

Peace be to you

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Joe and all,

This is very interesting... as I do believe the order of the gospels reveal more... as in a progression.  But, I am just starting to see these things so I can't talk too sensibly about it.  I pray that God will give me more understanding... and in the mean time would love to hear more of your thoughts.

I do believe overall that again we are talking about the many (swine) and the few (man - anthropos in Mark)

I also very much like (and you bolded it) the progression of mentioning sea, choked in the sea, and then lake!  I'm convinced that is the lake of fire.

Again, I'm just starting to see the gospels this way... but wanted to at least let you know that I am interested in what you are seeing and look forward to hearing more of your insights.

Bobby

Hi Bobby,

Thank you for the encouragement! I would like nothing better than to have you look through these things as well to see what you pick up and that we all can study this together and see where it leads if indeed it leads anywhere. I can't see how a humble study of His Word seeking the treasures of Him can be a negative in regard to our spiritual growth and understanding.

Thanks again!

Peace,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Joe

Thank you for posting this comparison. We are given the spiritual commandment from God that in order to make spiritual truths clear and compelling we are to quote

TRUTH NUMBER 7

[A] "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; COMPARING [or 'matching'] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13).

Re : TWELVE GOD-GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

You have made visible the application of this insight both practical and applicable! Thank you!

Also as an observation you say : We can see that the demons in Matthew are aware they have a "time" coming and seem surprised that Jesus is there, in Mark it is more like a lawyer making a legal claim" I adjure you...!" In the name of God no less! Then in Luke it is once again more like a plea rather than a legalistic technical motion.

What I find interesting here is that in email responces to Ray, it is clear we are seeing people express the Matthew (you meant Mark, right?) legal claims in the name of God that Ray stop! I have not seen the Luke plea yet but I think that is just around the corner once the unity of Christ's Mind and Spirit in joy and excitement of His resurrection begins to set in!  Then they will start begging. 



Peace to you brother

Arcturus

Hi Arc,

You picked up on something there, the same spirit that is in the churches also motivates some of the email writers who take Ray to task for proclaiming the scriptures rather than man made doctrines.

They don't have the faith in God that He really loves all His creation, they don't believe He really intends to save all, they have no clue of the Lord's work in preparing an elect group to participate in the Fall Harvest (or that there even is more than one harvest) and the conversion or salvation process He is presently doing. To many His work was completed at the cross and at resurrection but there is little mention of what He is doing since His death, resurrection and Pentecost.

As a case in point check out the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John starting from after the crucifixion, you will see that in "legalistic" Mark there is not much at all especially if you take out the spurious verses (Mark 16:9-20). For a real stark contrast read Mark's account which is only a few verses and then John's (the no parable Gospel) which is almost 2 chapters!

Were these guys at the same event, know the same Jesus, see many of the same things? I am sure the answer is yes but were they inspired to write the same things? Apparently not. Why? God does not waste His Word(s).

Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

There are parables within parables and mysteries that are riddles wrapped in an enigma which we call our bible. It sometimes does not even come close to resembling (our own) logic but if we pray for spiritual eyes many things we did not see before become clear as He grants us His spiritual eyes.

Isa 28:21  For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

I could not agree more. 

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Amen to that Joe...and yes...I did mean Mark not Matthew hence the need to be specific is revealed.

Matthew Mark Luke and John are NOT the same! Comparing spiritual with spiritual, this is made evident which at first as you point out, it appears the same.

You note....quote...there even is more than one harvest

This triggered what I found in the sequel to the demoniac story. When I found that this was two different occasions, I realised that Jesus did not perform what we see He performed only one time! It at first appeared to me that this was the one and only time encountered a wild demon possessed man living in the tomb who He set free but this is not so.

Jesus performed these events all the time during His Ministry. We have the accounts through the books of Matthew Mark and Luke but as I see this, the incident recorded in Matthew occurred opposite Capernaum. Look vs 5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum....
then vs 23..when He was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him. THEN He came to Gergesenes not Gadara where He healed only ONE Maniac after He called the twelve as is recorded in Mark and Luke.

The book of Mark and Luke identify the same incident as shown in the parallel events that followed with Jesus and Jarius.

What does this mean for me. Well firstly, Jesus did not heal one time one Maniac. This discovery makes Jesus and what He was doing FAR bigger than a once off event. It shows for me the nature of Jesus and a fuller picture of His Presence emerges making Him more real, nearer and more present than in merely a once off event. So what that there were pigs in both stories. There must be some meaning in that too!

Peace to you brother

Arc.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Arc,

Just a couple quick points, in Matthew the Lord does not tell the two (witnesses through experience) who had their demons removed anything in regard to spreading the message of what He accomplished. No statement in Matthew of the Lord's return to that place either.

In Mark Jesus commanded the man to tell those people of the town what had transpired but He did not return to that place but met the people on the other side.

Mar 5:21  And when Jesus was passed over again by ship unto the other side, much people gathered unto him and he was nigh unto the sea.

The other side of what, any speculation?

Now in Luke Jesus commanded the man to go spread the word of what had happened and when Jesus returned to that same place what happened?

Luk 8:40  And it came to pass, that, when Jesus was returned, the people gladly received him: for they were all waiting for him.

The people were waiting for Him and gladly received Him!

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Hello again Arcturus,

I had to cut short my last response due to a time constraint but I wanted to comment on your observation that what we may have here are different yet similar events, this goes back to John's last verse in his Gospel;

Joh 21:25  And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Is it possible the things that were recorded were for a specific purpose and reason for a certain select group or groups? We have this from Paul;

1 Corinthians 12

14For the body is not one member, but many.

15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Even the Gospel writers were given uneven portions or maybe I should say different parts, some that could be considered a higher honor, Luke was given the commission to record the Acts of the Apostles which showed the power of the Spirit of Christ after the ascension, John wrote Revelation which foretold not only what was to come of the world but to every single believer through the age.

How many times have you read these Gospels and perhaps just now saw the different cities/countries, 2 demon possessed versus one demon possessed, the other side of the water, same side of the water and no return at all? For me after reading these things maybe hundreds of times I must admit I never saw the stark differences until my Brother in Christ began to point them out to me.

I have to say this has really inspired a desire to know the Gospels as I never knew them before, sad to say I have taken them for granted up to very recently.

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Joe

That brother of yours who is showing you these things sure is precious!

I have been thinking about the pigs. I recall Ray teaching that where the sheep are Satan is present also.  Where the word is sown the evil one comes quickly to snatch it away. In parallel where the maniacs are there are also the pigs. Jesus said

Matt 7 : 6  neither cast ye pearls before swine...

Jesus did not cast pearls before the swine, He sent the demons into them!

Pigs can not eat pearls. They will trample them. What do they eat?

Luke 15 : 15  And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16. And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat; but they could not satisfy his hunger...

Babylon feeds on husks. What they eat does not satisfy hunger...(I know what that hunger is like! I recall being in Babylon and crying because I was not being fed and I did not know that my suffering was due to where I was and what I was eating! )

The bread of repentance is the real food of the life of the spirit that strengthens us to receive and welcome Christ. This brings to mind what Paul said on the boat upon which he was a prisoner. He told his captives to throw everything overboard and to eat something for their strength. 

2 Cor 9 : 12 For the service that the ministering of this fund renders does not only fully supply what is lacking to the saints but it also overflows in many cries of thanksgiving to God.

Acts 27 : 33 While they waited until ti should become day, Paul entreated them all to take some food, saying, This is the fourteenth day that you have been continually in suspense and on the alert without food, having eaten nothing. 34. So I urge you to take some food  - it will give you strength; for not a hair is to perish from the head of any one of you.

Peace to you

Arc.

[Gregor]

Greetings,
Just a note about the pigs. They were the livelyhood of those living on the other side of the lake. The owners were probably very mad that they just watched their profit go over the cliff. Perhaps that's why they told Jesus to leave, rather than rejoicing that one/two of their fellow citizens were just set free. I'm sure there are many analogies that could be drawn from this. Surely a lesson on the love of unclean things/love of money is in there somewhere.

Psalm 49:20
A man who is in honor, yet does not understand,Is like the beasts that perish.

Proverbs 21:16
A man who wanders from the way of understanding Will rest in the assembly of the dead.

Psalm 119:144
The righteousness of Your testimonies is everlasting;Give me understanding, and I shall live.

Blessings,
G.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Gregor,

We read in all the accounts of the demons being sent into the herd of swine and the people who witnessed this were dismayed to say the least but only in Luke do we read that these same people but once they realized that it was the Lord God (Messiah) who did this they were anxious and grateful for His return.

Remember the rich young man and how he "went away grieved" once he was told what he must do to follow the Jesus into the Kingdom?

Remember all the disciples Jesus had up until the time of His arrest, scourging and crucifixion? How many were there waiting for Him after His resurrection?

How many of those who claim to follow Him will be ready (in hope) and waiting for Him when He returns?

For many will not want to let go of what they value in the here and now in exchange for a spiritual kingdom that they can't yet see, touch, hear, smell or taste. But there are some who are anxiously awaiting His return no matter the cost or tribulation.

I certainly agree with you on the physical application of these verses but what are the spiritual implications?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 

[hillsbororiver]

Hello Joe

That brother of yours who is showing you these things sure is precious!

I have been thinking about the pigs. I recall Ray teaching that where the sheep are Satan is present also.  Where the word is sown the evil one comes quickly to snatch it away. In parallel where the maniacs are there are also the pigs. Jesus said

Matt 7 : 6  neither cast ye pearls before swine...

Jesus did not cast pearls before the swine, He sent the demons into them!

Pigs can not eat pearls. They will trample them. What do they eat?

Luke 15 : 15  And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16. And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat; but they could not satisfy his hunger...

Babylon feeds on husks. What they eat does not satisfy hunger...(I know what that hunger is like! I recall being in Babylon and crying because I was not being fed and I did not know that my suffering was due to where I was and what I was eating! )

The bread of repentance is the real food of the life of the spirit that strengthens us to receive and welcome Christ. This brings to mind what Paul said on the boat upon which he was a prisoner. He told his captives to throw everything overboard and to eat something for their strength. 

2 Cor 9 : 12 For the service that the ministering of this fund renders does not only fully supply what is lacking to the saints but it also overflows in many cries of thanksgiving to God.

Acts 27 : 33 While they waited until ti should become day, Paul entreated them all to take some food, saying, This is the fourteenth day that you have been continually in suspense and on the alert without food, having eaten nothing. 34. So I urge you to take some food  - it will give you strength; for not a hair is to perish from the head of any one of you.

Peace to you

Arc.

Hi Arc,

I am finding this study on the Gospels to be very nourishing indeed! 

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe

[Gregor]

Hi Gregor,

We read in all the accounts of the demons being sent into the herd of swine and the people who witnessed this were dismayed to say the least but only in Luke do we read that these same people but once they realized that it was the Lord God (Messiah) who did this they were anxious and grateful for His return.

Remember the rich young man and how he "went away grieved" once he was told what he must do to follow the Jesus into the Kingdom?

Remember all the disciples Jesus had up until the time of His arrest, scourging and crucifixion? How many were there waiting for Him after His resurrection?

How many of those who claim to follow Him will be ready (in hope) and waiting for Him when He returns?

For many will not want to let go of what they value in the here and now in exchange for a spiritual kingdom that they can't yet see, touch, hear, smell or taste. But there are some who are anxiously awaiting His return no matter the cost or tribulation.

I certainly agree with you on the physical application of these verses but what are the spiritual implications?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 

Greetings Joe,
I think your post here makes the spiritual application obvious. Just as in many accounts the people/disciples were dismayed, it was the few (gospel of Luke account) who were chosen to receive understanding. Spiritually, without that understanding, man and beast are the same, both headed to the grave from which there is no escape apart from God. Christ's spirit leads us to life, whereas the spirit of this world leads to death. One cannot serve two masters. For whomever one gives themself to, to that one he becomes a slave, whether a slave of sin or a slave of righteousness. I'm sure there more layers of spiritual truth/application, but that's what I see as the obvious.

Blessings,
G.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Gregor,

Absolutely true, there are layers upon layers to His Word, that is why we find studying the scriptures to be so fascinating and even through diligent study it will surely take more than this time we have on earth to fully understand all the implications, that will come in the next age and beyond.

His Peace to you Brother,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Joe

You noted quote :
I had to cut short my last response due to a time constraint but I wanted to comment on your observation..

Thank you for your comments and I do understand what it means to have to communicate within time constraints! I too have them!

Regarding your reference to John 21 : 25, I prefer to use other scriptures to bring this meaning across. Like for instance where Paul says

Heb 5 : 11 Concerning this we have much to say which is hard to explain, since you have become dull in your spiritual hearing and sluggish even slothful in achieving spiritual insight.

Matt 13 : 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and heart with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Luke 24 : 25 And Jesus said to them, O foolish ones, sluggish in mind, dull of perception and slow of heart to believe, adhere to and trust in and rely on everything that the prophets have spoken!


I have been pondering Matt 8 : 28 –34

Those who fed the pigs fled and took the news of the demon possessed to the city.

Ø   The Religious leaders "stirred up the crowd" Mark 15 : 12

Ø   Luke 23 : 13 Pilate then called together the chief priests and rulers and the people 18. But they all together raised a deep cry saying " Away with this man!"

Ø   John 19 :6 When the chief priest and guards saw Him they cried out, Crucify Him. 14. Pilate said to the Jews, See your King! 15. But they shouted Away with Him!

I see something parallel here with those who fed the swine.

You asked regarding  quote :  Mar 5:21  And when Jesus was passed over again by ship unto the other side, much people gathered unto him and he was nigh unto the sea.

The other side of what, any speculation?...unquote

Jesus does not return to the place of His execution and crucifixion just as He did not return to the place where in Mark, He tells the man who had been controlled by unclean spirits to bring back word to his own family relatives and friends. I believe this is significant!

Peace to you brother.

Arc.