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Author Topic: The order of things...  (Read 2956 times)

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Linny

  • Guest
The order of things...
« on: March 04, 2008, 06:54:56 PM »

Okay, I have a question for those of you who have been studying this a while longer than myself.
Today, my husband and I watched a teaching by Ray on Repentance from Nashville 2005. It was great by the way. But he was asking the audience to put 3 things in order.
They were: repentance, cleansing and forgiveness.
His point was that the church doesn't put forgiveness first as it should be, with repentance 2nd, and cleansing 3rd. I completely understood this and agreed with it. At the cross, Jesus said, "It is finished." "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

Then I found this scripture which clearly gives the church their reasoning for putting the order as:
1)repentance, 2)forgiveness, and 3)cleansing.
It is:
1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Now the Strong's has the IF as a condition of forgiveness.
My question is: Is this translation incorrect? I did a comparison and all the translations I have had the IF in there.
Perhaps there is a translation out there that I don't have that makes this clearer?

Thanks for your help in advance!
Lin
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2008, 08:19:01 PM »

Hi Lin,

I believe this verse can be looked at in the present (constant) tense and it clears up the meaning, Rotherham's translates it as;

1John 1:9 If we are confessing our sins, faithful is He and righteous, that He should forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This really applies to every minute of our lives (as least in my own I know this to be true) as we are not going to say one prayer or make one confession and be done with it, no, this cleansing takes a lifetime. I don't think the other translations corrupt the message but they do cloud it a bit.

Hope this helps.

His Peace to you,

Joe
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Linny

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2008, 02:36:53 AM »

Thank you Joe! That does clear it up quite a bit.
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Chris R

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2008, 08:31:39 AM »

Hi,

"If" is translated  from the greek word "e-ä'n" While it is translated several times "if", it seems to be translated several thousand times, whoever, or whatsoever.

Peace

Chris R
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2008, 03:58:05 PM »


Confessing our sins is not a once of but a way of life that draws us to Christ.

Hebrews 4 : 15 For we do not have a High Pries Who is unable to understand and sympathize and have a shared feeling with our weaknesses and infirmities and liability to the assaults of temptations, but One Who has been tempted in every respect as we are,yet without sinning.

So...if we do not recognise that we are weak, infirm and liable to vanity and temptation then we do not approach Christ confessing our sins.....

There are two judgments. One on the House of God now and the other at the White Throne. Those who recognise their beast within and know that we are powerless without Christ, then instead of giving up, we hold fast our confession of faith in HIM.

This is easier said than done! It requires His Spirit to obey, follow and know Him! Understanding comes by His Spirit.

Peace be to you

Arcturus :)
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David

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2008, 08:57:48 PM »

Matthew 3:5 shows that Confession does not equal repentance. 5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan,
confessing their sins.


We know that few if any actually repented of their sins after their baptizm by John, and the confession of their sins, and none were converted in any way.
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 02:01:39 AM »

Right David

Confession is not deliverance. Repentance is a gift from God :) Conversion is also a gift from God for those who have repented.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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David

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 12:58:14 PM »

Thank you  Arcturus. Indeed Repentance is a gift from God, Amen.
Confession has nothing to do with it. As children we most often only confess once we've been found out, in the hope of avoiding getting a spanking. In most western cultures its customary in law to given credit (a lesser sentence) by the court if you plead guilty or confess, and many criminals know this and confess only for that reason if the evidence i stacked against them. 

I see the scriptures about Johns baptizm ministry as he is pricking their conciences by his words.....thus through God causing them to confess.

Luke 3:7-9 7Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”


In verse 10 the people ask what they should do, so obviously he has their attention and probably their concern.

Luke 3:17 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.”

John warned them all to repent, but clearly they didn't.

Be blessed.
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: The order of things...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 02:13:07 PM »



Yes David

Admitting one is an alcoholic is not the last step to conversion ~ its the FIRST!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus :)
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