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Author Topic: I don't understand fear.  (Read 2805 times)

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woops

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I don't understand fear.
« on: March 11, 2008, 07:03:07 PM »

Ray says that the fearful have a place in the lake of fire along with all of the murderers and what not.
Im simply having trouble understanding why.  I would really love to understand this message in its entirety.  I have looked on rays website and I still do not understand all of it.  Shoot, im even at a loss when I try to understand what fear is, I can't even define it at this point. 

So, what is rays definition of fear, as it is used in scriptures, and why does it keep you from being part of the elect?  And why do the fearful go to the lake of fire? 

Whats the truth on fear, I guess thats what Im asking.

Thanks.
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Craig

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2008, 07:10:01 PM »

Can you quote or link to the article in question?

Craig
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woops

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2008, 07:52:35 PM »

http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html, this is one instance of this dilemma.  There is also another instance, but Im having trouble locating the specific article, where ray poses the question as to why the fearful are sent to the lake of fire along with murderers and sorcerers.  He compares how all of these horrible things are done and gets you pondering on how the fearful are also a part of the lake of fire.  However, I don't think that my question was the point of the paper I read that in so it really didn't go into it, I believe he was making another point in that one.
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woops

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2008, 08:02:52 PM »

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html, this is also another instance where fear is spoken of, in the "what sins are tormented in the lake of fire" section.
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psalmsinger

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2008, 08:08:14 PM »

I was thinking that habitual fear and worry is, in part, the evidence that you have the heart of an unbeliever.............


Barbara
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Kat

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2008, 09:40:36 PM »


Hi woops,

Here is an email that should help.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1734.0.html ------

Actually, Jon, if you believe that "the lake of fire" is a literal hellhole of literal fire for all eternity, then you must admit, that no one is thrown in there because they reject Jesus, but the first reason given for being thrown in there is to be "fearful."  Or as it is in the Greek "shy or timid" -- "But the fearful...............shall have their part in the lake which burnes with fire and brimstone:  which is the second death" (Rev. 21:08).  The word translated "fearful" in this verse is from the Greek word "deilos" and Strong's first definition of this word is "timid."

Now then, Jon, what would you (a person possessing the merciful Spirit of God within you) think would be a suitable punishment for someone who is "timid?"

Would you suggest that a proper punishment for being "timid" is to be BURNED IN A LITERAL LAKE OF LITERAL FIRE FOR TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS OF QUADRILLIONS OF EONS--WITH NO END?  How does that sound for a suitable punishment for all people who are "timid?"

Or might you not rather re-educate you sick and deceived mind by reading my series on "HELL?"  Give it some thought.  My teaching comes from the Scriptures, not from evil christian tradition and paganism.

God be with you,
Ray
-------------------------------------------------

Here are a couple of Scriptures where Jesus spoke of those who were fearful and also not having faith.  Maybe if you are fearful you lack faith to fully trust in the Sovereignty of God, who is in control of all things.  Until you have that faith (which is a gift of God, Eph 2:08) you will not be ready to enter the kingdom, So therefore you must go through the Lake of fire.

Matt. 8:26  And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Mark 4:40  And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 11:39:28 PM by Kat »
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Linny

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2008, 11:36:01 PM »

Fear is the greatest tool of Satan. Look around you. We live in the most fearful society I can imagine. TV ads, doctors, our government, our parents spend most of their time speaking fear over us. It is the lesson the Lord has been dealing with us about for years now thank goodness. Fear is the opposite of Faith so it has to be removed from our lives.

We don't make ANY decision based on fear because we know that fear is of Satan and our decision could be wrong. We look for peace when we have decisions to make.

We stopped locking our vehicles years ago and haven't had a single problem. We have given our "stuff" to the Lord and allow Him to protect it. I watch people lock up their vehicles just to walk into a convenience store for 2 minutes and are parked at the door. This is FEAR.

My children are being raised in a "no fear" house. We don't allow them to watch things that will put fear on them. We don't do Halloween partly because it is all about fear.

I don't spend my days worrying about my kids being hurt. Whenever I feel fear coming on me I go to prayer and release it.

My dh and I are in the most financially difficult time of our lives and are probably going to lose our home. NO FEAR. We sleep well at night and we wait upon the Lord for our help.

What a blessing not to live in fear.

F-E-A-R
False Evidence Appearing Real

Lin
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Robin

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2008, 12:31:05 AM »

Here are some verses that may help. This is my understanding and I don't know if Ray would agree. Some will shrink back in fear according to God's plan and purpose. Those who are chosen will endure to the end according to God's plan and purpose. Those who are fearful and shrink back will have their part in the lake of fire, but will not be tortured for eternity for being fearful.

Hebrews 10:38
But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

Revelation 12:11
They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

Mark 8:35
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

Ephesians 2:
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.



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Martinez

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2008, 01:04:33 AM »


Fear is of the flesh, it is not of the spirit.

Fear is self preservation which is the most basic and strongest instincts present in most flesh in the animal kingdom.
Because fear is so carnal, it actually strength to the flesh which is why the law is powerless change the human heart.
It would be like someone pointing a gun at you and yelling "don't be scared or I will shoot". the very thing that is supposed to be the motivating force in you not fearing is the very thing that causing it.

The reason the church is so carnal and and stained with the corruption of the flesh is because of the Hellfire doctrine.
the Hell doctrine is the ultimate terror and therefore keeps us from growing in the Lord. there are some who do make a little progress, usually because they don't dwell on it or mentally put it of file at the back of their minds.

Some men refuse to come out from the Hellfire doctrine for fear of it being true and I think it is these who revelation is talking about when it says that they shall have their part in the Lake of fire. They are in the lake of fire because they are not the chosen of God and thus have not been chosen in this life to overcome this very powerful instinct.

The other thing is that those who serve out of fear are not serving God at all but themselves. You cannot serve God out of fear because fear is self preservation, so to serve out of fear is to serve fear which is actually serving self.

Those who serve self through fear in the church will be richly rewarded for that which the served. they will not go to into everlasting torment!
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David

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2008, 08:09:57 PM »

I see the scripture in revelation about the fearful going into the lake of fire as having more to do with boldness in Christ, rather than timidity etc.
Acts 13:46  Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

2 Cor 10:1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ—who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh

Phil 1:14 and most of the brethren in the Lord, having become confident by my chains, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.


1 Thes 2:2 But even after we had suffered before and were spitefully treated at Philippi, as you know, we were bold in our God to speak to you the gospel of God in much conflict.

I think whats being said in Revelation about the fearful, pertains to those in Christ who are fearful of proclaiming the TRUE Gospel for fear of trial, of conflict, of being persecuted and hated by the called Christians.

I don't see how it can mean fear in the sense of fear of the Lord etc. Christ said in Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gahenna.


Be blessed
David.
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woops

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 07:20:33 PM »

 :D

All of your posts have been very helpful,  they have made this much clearer.  Im starting to see the answers to my question.  Anything else you have to say would be much appreciated.
I will continue to study and think about these things.

Thanks.

 
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Dante

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 09:32:27 AM »

The fearful will have part in the lake of fire,........right.
Ok,......why???
Because they are in need of correction.


You don't punish a child if they already learned their lesson.
So, a child must be taught NOT TO FEAR ANYTHING THAT their Heavenly Father has in store for them.
The lake of fire is a GOOD THING.

It is a corrective measure given by our loving Father, to change people to be sinless and perfect. To be without the things in them that God finds to be sinful.
A fearful child needs to have perfect love in them (Since perfect love casts out ALL FEAR). This is what the lake of fire will do for them.
It will give them PERFECT LOVE.

Since it is God himself who IS THE LAKE OF FIRE.

A fearful child is dipped in, that same child is now filled with perfect love and taken out.

Problem solved.

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chuckt

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2008, 09:54:39 AM »

Ray says that the fearful have a place in the lake of fire along with all of the murderers and what not.
Im simply having trouble understanding why.  I would really love to understand this message in its entirety.  I have looked on rays website and I still do not understand all of it.  Shoot, im even at a loss when I try to understand what fear is, I can't even define it at this point. 

So, what is rays definition of fear, as it is used in scriptures, and why does it keep you from being part of the elect?  And why do the fearful go to the lake of fire? 

Whats the truth on fear, I guess thats what Im asking.

Thanks.



greetings.

i havent read all the reply's but you see there is NO love in fear, love IS the perfection of the saints!

without LOVE there is nothing.

to be clothed with Christ IS to be clothed with LOVE a coat of many colours :-*

1 If I should be speaking in the languages of men and of the messengers, yet should have no love, I have become resounding copper or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I should have prophecy and should be perceiving all secrets and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so as to transport mountains, yet have no love, I am nothing.3 And if ever I should be morselling out all my possessions, and if I should be giving up my body, that I should be boasting, yet may have no love, in nothing do I benefit.
4 Love is patient, is kind. Love is not jealous. Love is not bragging, is not puffed up,
5 is not indecent, is not self-seeking, is not incensed, is not taking account of evil,
6 is not rejoicing in injustice, yet is rejoicing together with the truth,
7 is forgoing all, is believing all, is expecting all, is enduring all.
8 Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded.
9 For out of an instalment are we knowing, and out of an instalment are we prophesying.
10 Now whenever maturity may be coming, that which is out of an instalment shall be discarded.
11 When I was a minor, I spoke as a minor, I was disposed as a minor, I took account of things as a minor. Yet when I have become a man, I have discarded that which is a minor's.
12 For at present we are observing by means of a mirror, in an enigma, yet then, face to face. At present I know out of an instalment, yet then I shall recognize according as I am recognized also.
13 Yet now are remaining faith, expectation, love -- these three. Yet the greatest of these is love.



faith is needed but faith is just the beginning!!


1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls.


:5   And this same also -- all diligence having brought in besides, superadd in your faith the worthiness, and in the worthiness the knowledge, 
2Pe 1:6   and in the knowledge the temperance, and in the temperance the endurance, and in the endurance the piety, 
2Pe 1:7   and in the piety the brotherly kindness, and in the brotherly kindness the love
2Pe 1:8   for these things being to you and abounding, do make [you] neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ, 
2Pe 1:9   for he with whom these things are not present is blind, dim-sighted, having become forgetful of the cleansing of his old sins; 
2Pe 1:10   wherefore, the rather, brethren, be diligent to make stedfast your calling and choice, for these things doing, ye may never stumble, 
2Pe 1:11   for so, richly shall be superadded to you the entrance into the age-during reign of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 



God bless
chuckt
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 04:53:31 PM »

Hi Martinez

I enjoyed what you observed quote :... fear is self preservation, so to serve out of fear is to serve fear....

This brought to mind that there are perhaps gradients in Gods testing and trying us to perfect us. I remembered ~Abraham and Isaac who he had to murder. Can you imagine what he must have suffered. First of all he had to journey a few days to the site of the sacrifice. All the way I can not even begin to imagine what he must have felt. He was on his way to kill his son and he was trusting in God that all would be okay. Right up to the point where he had the knife raised up in the air....There is no doubt he would have obeyed God but the loss. Did he not consider the loss to himself of his son that God, no less, had given to him.

Grief. Loss. Death. Are these not some of the fires of fear that we have to pass through? As we are shaped into meekness and mildness sharing the yoke of Christ it is God that sustains us to come to grow into the standard height of Christ who has overcome deaths sting and the victory of hell and the grave which epitomises everything that the flesh fears.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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indianabob

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Re: I don't understand fear. bob
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2008, 03:31:01 AM »

Dear new friend Lin,

I like your letter and your less fear life style.  Well put.
I would have to admit that we do lock our car in the public mall to avoid vandalism and to follow the advice of our insurance carrier.  State Farm doesn't want us to tempt thieves and then file a claim.
We have glass doors on the front and rear of our home and locking them would slow the burgular down for about 30 seconds, so we only lock them to keep out the nosey neighbors and not out of fear.
I'm sure that you would agree that we should exercise wisdom.

I especially liked your comment that you had given your "stuff" to the Lord and I would remind us all that our Lord is training us to be responsible, not out of fear, but out of respect.

Your friend, IndianaBob



Fear is the greatest tool of Satan. Look around you. We live in the most fearful society I can imagine. TV ads, doctors, our government, our parents spend most of their time speaking fear over us. It is the lesson the Lord has been dealing with us about for years now thank goodness. Fear is the opposite of Faith so it has to be removed from our lives.

We don't make ANY decision based on fear because we know that fear is of Satan and our decision could be wrong. We look for peace when we have decisions to make.

We stopped locking our vehicles years ago and haven't had a single problem. We have given our "stuff" to the Lord and allow Him to protect it. I watch people lock up their vehicles just to walk into a convenience store for 2 minutes and are parked at the door. This is FEAR.

My children are being raised in a "no fear" house. We don't allow them to watch things that will put fear on them. We don't do Halloween partly because it is all about fear.

I don't spend my days worrying about my kids being hurt. Whenever I feel fear coming on me I go to prayer and release it.

My dh and I are in the most financially difficult time of our lives and are probably going to lose our home. NO FEAR. We sleep well at night and we wait upon the Lord for our help.

What a blessing not to live in fear.

F-E-A-R
False Evidence Appearing Real

Lin

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spaceboy

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Re: I don't understand fear.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 08:20:36 PM »

I asked Ray about this once, I told him am I going to be in the lake of fire because of my fear of heights? and he told me "we all have our little phobias, the one's who will be in the lake of fire are the one's who are fearful for DOING WHAT IS RIGHT"


sorry if someone already addressed this, i didn't look through any of the responses.
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