Hi Sorin,
I was reading the 2007 Nashville Conference 'Who And What Is Jesus? & Who Is His Father?' and I came across this section that I think will help in this discussion.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg35928.html#msg35928Now, so you except this Christ, you say, ‘alright I believe.’ ‘Maybe I don’t believe as good as I could, but I believe.’ ‘I’m going that way, you’re the Man, Jesus.’
“There is no more condemnation for those in Jesus Christ.”
That’s where you are. Except there is one escape clause. Paul said, unless you are faking it, unless you are just a total fraud. But if you do believe in Jesus, if you do in your heart say yes, I do I really do. Then this is your lot in life.
Rom 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.”
None! There is no condemnation in you! None. ‘Well surely some of the sins.‘ None. ‘But I’m not as good as you are Ray.’ None, there is no condemnation in you.
This idea that God beats you to death with His wrath and anger and indignation until the day you die, is Satanic heresy. “…no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.” NONE!
Rom 8:4 “…who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‘Oh Ray, now you blew it, you see I still do walk after the flesh sometimes.’ But where do you want to walk? ‘Well I want to walk after the spirit.’ Well, you’re back in.
Rom 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
v. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
v. 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
v. 5 “For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh;”
Now if you find yourself minding the things of the flesh, you need to pray to God and cry out to help you and save you from that situation. You say this is not me, God, I don’t want to go here. I don’t want to do this, but my flesh is pulling me and I war, I need help, I need reinforcements. And you cry out to God and that humbles you. Because you see that you can’t do it. If you could do it, then you would become self sufficient, and you wouldn’t need God. He will always Make you dependant on Him.
Jesus always prayed. Why? He’s the Son of God! What did He need to pray for? Because He knew, if the Father didn’t do it, then it wouldn’t be done. It’s as simple as that.
Rom 8:6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be Spiritually minded is life and peace:
v. 7 because the carnal is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:”
v.8 “and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
So those that are in the flesh, they can not please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
v. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
v. 11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall also quicken(or bring to life) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you.
v. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
v. 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
This is the Word of God. He put us in these bodies that want to sin and follow after lustful, stupid, sensual, fun, fuzzy things. But if in your heart and mind you don’t want that anymore, not that you don’t want, but you don’t want to want it. And so you cry out to God and say, ‘I don’t want to want it.’ And then God is your Father, He’ll come to your rescue. Just like any Father would come to any child’s rescue, when he cries out to him.
Rom 8:26 “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought…”
Or as according to what must be, you know. What is absolutely what is God’s plan, that can not be deviated from. We don’t always know what that is. But God’s spirit helps us to pray, so we will pray in accordance with what needs to be God’s plan and God’s will/purpose fulfilled in us.
Rom 8:27 and He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because He maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
v. 28 And we know that all things work together for the good to them that love God, to them that are called according to His purpose.
In verse 28 it should read God works all things together.
Rom 8:30 “Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, the He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.”
Now we are coming back to the same thing from verse one.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?”
Well, is God for us? Well yea, He’s for those He’s calling according to His purpose and plan. But, I don’t know if everyone sitting in here is in that category. But I’ll tell you what, if you are not in that category, you’re probably not to concerned about it. That’s what I tell everybody.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat