bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Made out of things unseen.  (Read 2977 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

woops

  • Guest
Made out of things unseen.
« on: March 17, 2008, 05:16:29 PM »

This is another thing that I've been wondering about.  Its a quite intriguing thought, at least to me.
Ray says in one of his papers that the physical world is made out of things unseen, that it is not made out of nothing, and that god is unseen, and that the world is made out of god.

This leads me to all kinds of questions, it really makes me wonder about our world.
First of all, I cannot create things, so I don't have any understanding of the creation of our world, it is like magic to me when I try and understand how our world was made and what it is made of and what it is.  I can't understand it.

For instance, the sun, all that I can see about the sun and it's shedding of light is that it was created somehow and somehow does what it does, I can say what the sun does, it sheds light, but Im at a loss to understand how it does what it does and how it was made of things unseen and if it's made out of things unseen then what is it?  All I can say at this point is that it somehow sheds light, and that I don't know what it's made of.

Put simply, what is our world exactly, physicality I mean.  How was it made, what is it made of?
Once again, as far as I can tell, it would seem like a magic trick basically.  I'm not saying that it is, but with my current lack of knowledge I have no clue.  As far as I can tell, god can just create things somehow and somehow they do what they do.

I hope that Im not alone on this, because some people would find that to be pretty strange wouldn't they.
Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 05:19:11 PM »

Oh I just thought of a good bible qoute that tells you what Im saying,  And god said let there be light!
I have no Idea how that can happen, what it is made of, you get what Im saying.  All I know is that he made the light itself and it shines!  Whoa!
And will this one day be understood by everyone?
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 05:35:58 PM »

Hello woops

It is so wonderful is it not.

Reading your posts made me recall a very intriguing thing I learnt years ago. I did not know that we can not see light! We see the influence of light on matter but light, we can not see. That is why the sun does not illuminate space because space is void.

Pretty interesting hey!

peace to you sister

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 05:37:46 PM by Arcturus »
Logged

Martinez

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 07:56:50 PM »


Hi woops.

It is a very interesting subject this one.

It occurs to me that I have never heard a scientist explain why anything works the way it does, only how.
Everything that exists down to the smallest atom or electron is a physical representation of a spiritual principal and that is why science can give you the how's buy not the whys, because science doesn't deal with the spiritual aspect of things.


Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Of course though, men are blind so that don't see what is right in front of their face.

I do believe that creation is the scriptures in picture form, sort of a pop up bible that we are living in. so then we really do have no choice but to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God, because if we didn't we would not exist.

It is a very interesting subject this one isn't it!
Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 08:24:21 PM »

Well, wonderful, amazing, interesting, I'm not so sure.  If I had it clearly explained to me, then wouldn't it be pretty ordinary?  If I understood things fully, it wouldn't be amazing or wonderful at all.
Like when a genius is able to do incredibly hard math without even thinking about it, if I could do it would I look at it the same way?
Or david blaine on television(just an example), If I could do card tricks would I still think that it's amazing when I see a card trick done, being able to fully explain it and understand how it's done?

And I don't think that god is amazed or think it to be wonderful, because he made it, and knows everything about it.  Like a painter isn't amazed or in wonder about his work because he knows why he did it and what it's about and how it was painted.

Is it not fully explainable?
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 09:45:03 PM »


Hi Woops,

I was looking through the Mobile conference transcript and found a few things that I think fit in with this discussion  :)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html --------

God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you canít see Him, not literally.  We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our intermost being.
 
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God.  Iím trying to help you right now, to see God.  So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didnít, when you walked in here.  If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
 
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and Heíll still be after we leave.  Because this desk is here and this desk has it cohesion in Jesus Christ.  It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart.  It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and itís passed off out of Him.  One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him.  GOD IS ALMIGHTY!
v
v
So if we do away with the created universe, what do you have? You have God and light.  He created the darkness.  But I had someone say to me, cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light, itís not something, itís the absence of something.  I say, I know that sounds very scientific, but Godís thoughts are not your thoughts, neither His ways our ways, and God created darkness.  Except that there be, this envelope of darkness that shrouds us from God, it would be light all the time, everywhere.  There is no darkness with God.  Only in His creation did He create darkness.
 
So donít think before God created the universe, He was drifting around in outer space, with nothing to sit on, nowhere to go and nothing to do.  It doesnít even say that there was nothing.  It doesnít say in the beginning there was nothing and God made something.  It says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, but God doesnít live in things that are created.  He doesnít need that for habitation, because He existed before He created those things.  Now He resides in heaven, the heavens being (among other things) us.  Our spirituality is of heaven and He dwells in man.  Donít you know your body is a holy temple of God.  There are multiple heavens.
-----------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

mrl1970

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 02:22:34 AM »

If I could do card tricks would I still think that it's amazing when I see a card trick done, being able to fully explain it and understand how it's done?




Remember card tricks are just great deceptions.When one knows how to do a card trick (no longer deceived) it only changes ones perspective of it.  It gives a greater appreciation of the skill and knowledge of the one doing the trick as well as the one who created it.
Logged

chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 08:52:16 AM »

Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 04:30:08 PM »

So, is it safe to say that this world is spiritual?  That if I don't see the spirit that is what makes it physical?
I'm apparently a confused little animal that could really use a good teacher(god I mean).
Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 04:43:47 PM »

I really despise not be able to understand this.  It really doesn't feel good.
Logged

phazel

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 04:44:05 PM »

So, is it safe to say that this world is spiritual?  That if I don't see the spirit that is what makes it physical?
I'm apparently a confused little animal that could really use a good teacher(god I mean).


I do believe our existance is spiritual and God intends for us to see things the way we do for a reason.  But here is how I have related to the progression of learning to see this transition of knowledge from physical to see it is spiritual.


If you look at the progression of scientific knowledge, the more we know, the closer we look, the more invisible it gets.


You can look at everything that appears solid and it all boils down to something unseen driving it, and holding it together.   Scientists may be able to detect all kind of energy forms, might be able to predict what this does or that does.  We can identify what something is to our perception and it is indeed a reality to our physical world.

Yet, there is still unseen  forces that scientists cannot explain, only the reality that they are there.  Atheists often argue that since we can detect these things they are not actually unseen, but they miss the point.

We may know something is there that holds different types of atoms together, but they really do not know what it is, or how it does it.   I believe that to be the unseen the bible is talking about.


What the bible doesn't say is that we will NEVER know what that is.

Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 06:54:31 PM »


Hi Woops,

This can be a difficult thing to really get a good grasp on, but just keep meditating on it.

Ray gave a analogy at the 2006 Mobile conference that I think might help.

So let's think about this a little bit, who is the Father?  In Him we live and breath and have our being.  Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish.  The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light.  It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen.  So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God.  The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.  http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html


Now you see that spirit is in everything and that is how everything exist.  Because God is what holds everything together.

Col 1:17  And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

But for now God is putting us through a physical experience first, before He opens our eyes to the spiritual.

1Co 15:46  But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.

So we are learning from this experience of good and evil.  I think we are to come to comprehend that when we sin it is harmful to us as well as those we direct it towards and so this is happening through this experience we are having in the physical.  So for the few right now, at the appointed time in their life God will bring them to hate the sin that they ahave been a slave to and He will bring them to repentance.  And then as He opens our eyes to the Truth of who and what Jesus Christ is, then we begin to walk after the spirit.

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Ray gave a Bible study on 'Worship In Spirit And Truth' this would be a really good study to see how we actually walk after the spirit.

Ray's audio 'Worship In Spirit And Truth'
http://bible-truths.com/audio/5-06-07_Part1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/5-06-07_Part2.mp3

Transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5312.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2008, 09:09:48 PM »

Well, at least Im making progress, I used to ask no questions at all.
All of your posts are great, I will continue to think on things, but I have to realize that he is the only one that can show me I guess, and until that happens it doesn't matter how hard I try to understand, however, one of you said that one thing the bible doesn't say is that we will never understand it, thats good news.

But I have to say that I have a better understanding of things than I used to, now I realize that all of this was created(including me), and that god makes it happen.  Until the age of about twenty one I never thought about any of these things. 
Logged

chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 09:20:55 AM »

2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.

cv:

18 at our not noting what is being observed, but what is not being observed, for what is being observed is temporary, yet what is not being observed is eonian.
Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 05:54:50 PM »

Ok, I have discovered something new, to me anyway(give me a break, Im trying).  I am only thinking about a small portion of our reality, it's creation, and the spirit making it happen, while I think of this I am completely awe stricken, but as I think of only this I am ignoring "what" it is.  As I think of creation and why or how things happen according to the spirit I should also focus on what has been created, what Im saying is while the sun was created and sheds light and it is the spirit that causes it to happen, unscientifically of course, which I truly love this aspect of things, it is a gigantic ball of fire that will burn me.  I don't believe that for one second that this is amazing, wonderful, because it is quite painful.  Basically isn't this what we're talking about a spiritually painful existence.  I don't think that we should find this to be amazing or wonderful, at least not yet, although created and spiritual it is far from amazing or wonderful if you ask me, which according to mr. smith it should be for now.  And aren't I just a beast, when I think about that I come up with the question "should I be amazed" or do I just not understand?  I've said this in my previous posts on this topic, god probably knows exactly what he is doing and he probably doesn't view it the same way, wouldn't it be quite normal for him, and the only reason one would be amazed or in wonder is that they don't understand?  I'm sure that god does not wonder these things or is amazed by this world, and why would everybody not know the way things work?
Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 06:16:10 PM »

My conclusion after several days of painful thought.
It is the spirit making this to happen, I don't look at things scientifically.
But Im at a loss to explain what the spirit is, or how it does it.
God created matter, but how?  God made me, but how?
Conclusion:  I'm a big dumb animal that doesn't understand the spiritual.
Logged

woops

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2008, 06:50:40 PM »

I suppose thinking this way is a step up though, at least now I know that it isn't scientific and have a better understanding of it, for that I am grateful.
Logged

phazel

  • Guest
Re: Made out of things unseen.
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2008, 06:51:10 PM »

I don't think anyone knows "how" as human beings.   As I study I see the belief in the true spiritual nature of life takes faith and that faith is given by God at the time he has planned.  The very fact that you want to know and try to know is evidence of John 6:44
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.091 seconds with 25 queries.