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Author Topic: Satan and His Angels???  (Read 2887 times)

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Dante

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Satan and His Angels???
« on: March 20, 2008, 07:24:01 AM »

Matthew 25:41 - Then He will also say to those on the left, Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

Why would The Word of God state that the Fire was prepared for the Devil and his angels???

1) It seems to show that the Fire was never meant for Man. Which SEEMS to go along with the idea that man was never meant for the Fire!! So can someone explain how it is not so????

2) It states the Devil and His angels. Why Angels since the demons were never Angels???

I would appreciate ANY HELP WITH THIS passage!!! ???

Thanks everyone!! :D

Dante
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Dante

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2008, 07:29:37 AM »

Just want to elaborate a little more.

I am looking for someone to tell me why the passage does not imply exclusivity OF "The Devil and His angels".

And Why the reference to "Angels". Is the word translated incorrectly. Should the word be Messengers or servants or something like that??

Thanks everyone!! 
Really love you guys.
I feel good every time I post here!!! :D
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Chris R

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2008, 08:18:18 AM »

Hi,

The link below will help, Remember Christ taught the masses in parables, and without parables taught He nothing, The words I speak to you are spirit.


http://bible-truths.com/lake5.html
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chuckt

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 09:18:13 AM »

Matthew 25:41 - Then He will also say to those on the left, Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

Why would The Word of God state that the Fire was prepared for the Devil and his angels???

1) It seems to show that the Fire was never meant for Man. Which SEEMS to go along with the idea that man was never meant for the Fire!! So can someone explain how it is not so????

2) It states the Devil and His angels. Why Angels since the demons were never Angels???

I would appreciate ANY HELP WITH THIS passage!!! ???

Thanks everyone!! :D

Dante



angels just means messengers.

41 "Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, 'Go from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.


2 cor. Now what I am doing and will be doing is that I should strike off the incentive from those wanting an incentive, that in what they are boasting they may be found according as we also.
13 For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel, for Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light.
15 It is no great thing, then, if his servants also are being transfigured as dispensers of righteousness -- whose consummation shall be according to their acts.
16 Again I am saying, no one should presume me to be imprudent. Otherwise surely, even if it should be as imprudent, receive me, that I also should boast some little!
17 What I speak, I am not speaking in accord with the Lord, but as in imprudence, in this assumption of boasting



also read the link Chris posted.


peace
chuckt
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Kat

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2008, 10:37:25 AM »


Hi Dante,

Consider that the Lake of fire is actually made up of Christ and the Saints, which you can read about in the link Chris provided.

The fire is judgment, it will burn and purge away all of the sinful carnal nature.  The fire that God chastens with is certainly a difficult thing to endure, but it is not literally fire, the pain is mental not physical.

1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
v. 14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
v. 15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So the Elect/Saints will be "prepare" or made ready for Satan and the demons, that's good since they will have to contend with them, along with the rest of humanity. 

I hope that was of some help  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat


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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

Paul

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2008, 07:49:40 PM »

I have a question:

Why does the King James version not have a "the" before "everlasting fire"?

"...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

It doesn't look like it's saying the everlasting fire is prepared for the devil and his angels; it looks like it's saying "be prepared for the devil and his angels." Get what I'm saying?
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Dante

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 09:52:51 AM »

Ok,.thanks everyone.
I have read the Lake of Fire series in it's entirety two times (In the past, just so you know where I am at in the thought process).

And been to different pages so many times that I cannot count anymore.

I reread the page that the link was given (Thank you Kat,...and everyone else).
But I didn't find anything on the specific nature of that verse.

Although, I have to say that it was really awesome reading that page again!!!!!!

So, just so I have it straight. I understand that God is the Lake of Fire.
It is God's LOVE (That is the Lake), since God is Love, it will be HIM that IS the Lake of Fire.
Got ya!! ;D
The Lake of Fire is painful, but a GOOD and MUCH NEEDED THING.(Very Necessary!!)

BUT,...It is also US (The Saints), that ARE the Lake of Fire??
I can buy that,...ok. I get where your going!

But as to the passage itself. As it would seem to show that the Lake of Fire was never meant for HUMANS.

Is the thought TO BE THIS???: "The Adversary (The Devil, Satan, or whatever) and his Messengers, could mean HUMAN MESSENGERS ALSO? Not necessarily, JUST DEMONS!!"
This would seem to make sense, as the "Preachers of Hell" (Those who DELIGHT IN IT) are actually MESSENGERS of SATAN or the ADVERSARY!!

What is your take on this, please.
And again, I thank you for your input! :D
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cherokee

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 10:49:41 PM »

Dante,
 
I think you are on the right track.

You said: Is the thought TO BE THIS???: "The Adversary (The Devil, Satan, or whatever) and his Messengers, could mean HUMAN MESSENGERS ALSO? Not necessarily, JUST DEMONS!!"
This would seem to make sense, as the "Preachers of Hell" (Those who DELIGHT IN IT) are actually MESSENGERS of SATAN or the ADVERSARY!!

Here is the scripture with Strong's numbers:
Mat 25:41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil1228 and his angels:32

The one for the devil:
 G1228
διάβολος
diabolos
dee-ab'-ol-os
From G1225; a traducer; specifically Satan (compare [H7854]): - false accuser, devil, slanderer.


The one for his angels:
G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

Hope this helps.

Peace to you,
Suzie
 
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jerreye

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 12:45:32 AM »

Hi Dante, you are absolutely correct. I had a battle with this some time ago myself so I know what you are going through :)

An "angel" is a messenger. It can be either a spiritual messenger or a human messenger. When God says that this fire is being prepared for the devil and his angels (messengers) it is peaking of ALL his messengers. This would include evil spirits AND human preachers, teachers, false prophets etc etc, as they are equally all "messengers" (those who teach his doctrines) of the devil.

Cheers,
Jeremy
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Martinez

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 01:56:34 AM »

Matthew 25:41 - Then He will also say to those on the left, Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

Why would The Word of God state that the Fire was prepared for the Devil and his angels???

1) It seems to show that the Fire was never meant for Man. Which SEEMS to go along with the idea that man was never meant for the Fire!! So can someone explain how it is not so????

2) It states the Devil and His angels. Why Angels since the demons were never Angels???

I would appreciate ANY HELP WITH THIS passage!!! ???

Thanks everyone!! :D

Dante


Hey there Dante!

Personally I think this verse would be better translated "Devil and his messengers" since that's what a angel in fact is.
I think Jesus was talking about those who preach the Satanic gospel here. (orthodox Christianity)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 01:58:03 AM by Martinez »
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truthistforjesus

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2008, 10:17:10 PM »

Hey people!

   To answer your question without presenting confusion.  Lucifer was the rebellious angel against the Son of God--Jesus Christ.  Satan was his 'general' so to speak.  In actuality all angels are created good.  Lucifer took 1/3 of the lower forms of angels with him in the rebellion.  Did Jesus speak that passage you named?  It could be more of a allegoric symbolism for the people of the 1st Century...?  Anyway, we will not end up in hell.  Lucifer and his traitors are now under a certain kind of spiritual quarrantine ever since Christ died... They still can act, but WE have to give will to them, which some unconciously do.  They cannot interfere with our life.  We are enveloped with the 'Comforter'--Spirit of Truth---Spirit of Christ.  Along with this gift he has freely given humanity, we also have the ministry of the angels that did NOT rebel against him.  These angels cannot penetrate our minds, however, they can and do guide us as subservient servants of Christ.  You see, we are supposed to work together for Christ.  A house divided cannot stand.  Learning Jesus' teachings about the brotherhood of man and the fatherhood of God is, in reality, the 'will of God'.  This sublime understanding that Jesus had is positive proof that he is the Eternal Son.  No other mortal in the flesh has never made such pronouncements, and then, actually LIVED AND ACTED them out!!!  He is truely amazing!!!

Love
TFJ

Please ask more questions...   
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Craig

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2008, 10:42:36 PM »

Quote
Lucifer was the rebellious angel against the Son of God

TFJ, have you read any of the bible-truths website?   

Lucifer is a christian hoax  http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

I don't have the time or energy tonight to pick apart the rest of this post.

Please read www.bible-truths.com

Craig
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Kat

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 10:55:27 PM »


Hi TFJ,

I had time to bring up couple excerpts from that article, but there is much more details in the article.
What you have stated is mostly the teaching of the church.  As Craig mentioned Ray's article explains what you have wrongly indicated in your post.

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html ------------------------------

ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM

("How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer")

Theologians have been teaching for centuries now that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 give us a perfect explanation of how a perfect Lucifer changed himself into Lucifer the Devil.

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isa. 14:-12-14).

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus says the Lord God; Thou seal up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created. You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you"

"By the multitude of your merchandise they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, and they may behold you" (Ezek. 28:12-17).

This, we are told, is a perfect description of how perfect Lucifer, a shining light bringing archangel/cherub, became Satan the Devil. Is there any truth to this theory? We will see.

This theory suits Satan just fine, and more so, it fits Christendom even ‘finer.’ With this theory (or more correctly ‘hypothesis’), Christendom has the perfect solution to how they can justifiably consign billions of humans to an eternal lake of fire. With their "free will" firmly established in their deceived minds, Christendom can now teach the world that Satan CHOSE to do evil and has not repented, and most of mankind has also CHOSEN to do evil and not repent, therefore they are all thrown into an eternal lake burning with fire, and God is not the least bit responsible.

The Church believes it has accomplished a most marvelous thing: they have gotten God off the hook of responsibility for all of the sickness, disease, pain, suffering, sin, evil, terrorism, and death in the world. You see, without free will, God could never know who is for Him and who is against Him—it’s the only way, the only "fair" way, and God is fair and God is good. Doesn’t this make good carnal sense, and everyone is happy? It is rank heresy at the highest level; that is what it is!

Prepare yourself for a revelation: Satan was never perfect and then decided by his phantom free will to become a devil, neither has a single human started out perfect and then decided by his free will to become a sinner! Now I am well aware of the fact that people are deceived about these things, as was I. But the Scriptural truth of these matters will set us free from centuries of unscriptural traditions. The problem with this "Lucifer fell" theory is twofold: poor translation and poor interpretation. Let’s go through it.

First Isaiah 14. To whom is God addressing Himself in these verses we quoted above?

"That you shall take up this proverb against the KING OF BABYLON..." (Ver. 4)

God is speaking of and to and about, "the King of Babylon," not Lucifer, not Satan, not a cherub. And God tells us the end of this man’s reign:

"Your pomp is brought down to the grave [Satan never died or was put in a grave], and the noise of your viols [harps or lutes]: the worm [or maggots] is spread under you [can maggots eat a spirit body], and the worms cover you" (Ver. 11).

But is not this "Lucifer" of verse 14 not Satan the Devil?
v
v
LUCIFER IS A CHRISTIAN HOAX

Now back to Isa. 14. With "Lucifer" out of the way, let’s read a couple versions other than the KJV and see how they dealt with this strange word ell which comes to us by way of the Greek Septuagint and the Latin Vulgate:

"How you are fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!" You are hacked down to the earth, destroyer of nations" (New International Version)

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! (New Revised Standard Version)

There is absolutely no reason to capitalize "day," "star," or "dawn" in this last version.

Here is how the Concordant Literal Old Testament translates this verse by following the Hebrew Manuscripts rather than the Catholic Latin Bible:

"How you have fallen from the heavens! Howl, son of the dawn! You are hacked down to the earth, defeater of all nations."

It is the king of Babylon who elevated himself to high heaven in the heavens of his own mind, and it is the same king of Babylon who has "fallen from the heavens," and it is the same king of Babylon who is "hacked down to the earth," and it is the same king of Babylon who was the "defeater of all nations," and not a "perfect Satan."
-------------------------------------------------

mercy, peacve and love
Kat

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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

Dante

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 09:24:08 AM »

Thanks again everyone!! :)
Just so everyone knows where I am at, I know that Satan is not a Fallen Angel, but a Liar from the beginning.

And even thought truthistforjesus was trying to be helpful, he or she (Sorry Truthistforjesus, but you don't specify guy or gal), JUST didn't get to that TRUTH PART YET.

I PRAY that Truthistforjesus, will get to that soon. It is very, very important for he or she to get that down pat!

**********************
But, on to the matter at hand.

All I need now is a couple of verses that show that God calls HUMANS, Messengers or Angels or it's equivalent.

As Suzie mentioned the word "aggelos" in the Greek.
Does anyone have, either in Greek or Hebrew, a verse that shows beyond a drought that Messenger CAN AND IS A HUMAN.

It would be of much help to lay this to rest in my mind.

I hope it is not to much trouble.

I am not asking for anyone to search for me, but if you happen to be more knowledgeable on the subject than I, and have a couple of VERSES LAYING AROUND, and your not using them for anything  ;D, could you just kind of copy and paste them here.

I would be MUCH appreciated.
Thanks everyone.
Hope everyone had a Happy Easter or should I say: enjoyed celebrating the RISEN CHRIST, Yesterday.

God's Love to you all.
And thanks again for ALL your help.

Dante
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 11:03:00 AM »

Hi Dante,

Here we have Christ Himself referring to John The Baptist;


Mat 11:10  For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger32 before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

You can also find two other witnesses to this in Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27.

His Peace to you,

Joe
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Dante

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2008, 12:01:22 PM »

That is what I was looking for!!
Thank you Muchly!!!!
In my mind that closes the case.
Cannot express what a help you have been. ;D

God be with you Joe and everyone else.

Dante :D
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 12:40:38 PM »

Hi Dante,

You are very welcome, want a few more?

Luke 7:24, Luke 9:52 and James 2:25, in these three verses the word is plural "messengers" but you will see the same Strong's number (G 32) attached to the plural form as well as the singular.

Peace,

Joe



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Dante

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Re: Satan and His Angels???
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 02:37:55 PM »

Thanks again Joe.
I like to have folders of info. so that when someone asks me, why I believe something to be, I have the answer.
Or at least a valid, intelligent response.
And this has helped a great deal with dealing with this and other verses in the Word of God.

God be with you my friend ;)
Dante
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