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Author Topic: What about Heaven?  (Read 2282 times)

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ez2u

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What about Heaven?
« on: March 21, 2008, 02:39:47 PM »

we have a clearer understanding on Hell so what about heaven?  Does any one have a better understanding on Heaven?  What kind of place that is?  Does heaven exist in another plateau?  Is heaven within us as Christ is within us?  peggy
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 03:02:47 PM »

we have a clearer understanding on Hell so what about heaven?  Does any one have a better understanding on Heaven?  What kind of place that is?  Does heaven exist in another plateau?  Is heaven within us as Christ is within us?  peggy
Acts 7:49  "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?"

The Heavens is where God resides.

"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" (Eph 2:6, KJV).

The above verse was written on earth yet paul informs us together we sit in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS!

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Joh 3:13, KJV).

Amazing! Jesus was on Earth, but at the same time he was in heaven! How can this be?

Revelation 21:2 "I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU" (Luk 17:21, KJV).

The elect are the heavens of God. God is building up a holy temple. Know ye not that your body is the temple of God and the spirit of God resides IN YOU?
 
Revelation 21:1 "Then I saw a new heaven[NEW MIND FOR MAN] and a new earth[NEW MAN], for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.[NO MORE CARNAL GOD-DEFYING SEA OF HUMANITY BECAUSE GOD THE CONSUMING FIRE HAS DESTROYED THE CARNAL MAN and all that remains is the NEW MAN.]

I hope this helps.

God bless,

Alex
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 03:05:56 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 06:04:08 PM »

Hi Peggy,

I believe the answer Alex gave was a good one from what we presently have been given from above to understand what the Kingdom, Heaven, being born again really will be, so far IMHO we only have "an earnest" a down payment on a true understanding of what it will be, I would be highly suspicious of anyone who claimed to know exactly what God has in store for His children.

We can be fairly certain of what heaven/The Kingdom is not;

(From LOF Part 6)


JESUS CHRIST—THE ROCK

"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation and another builds thereon. But let every man take heed how he builds thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which IS Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation…" (I Cor. 3:10-12).
 
We already saw that we are God’s building of living stones that are to produce garden varieties of spiritual fruit.

Paul gives us an even clearer description of this spiritual building process in Eph. 2:19-21,

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are [being] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed [being connected together] grows unto an holy temple in the Lord: In Whom ye also are built together for an habitation [dwelling place] through [in] Spirit."

God’s Word portrays a far different and higher spiritual destiny than the Christian candy-coated heaven of a Disney World Magic Kingdom with pearly gates, streets of gold, fluffy clouds, and chubby-cheeked cherubs strumming their little harps while huge choruses sing rock-n-roll gospel music and the saints practice rapping with the angels in a land of endless mountains of chocolate and candy were everyone has his own mansion in which to live in the lap of perpetual luxury, laziness, and non-accomplishment, catering to the lusts of the flesh while delighting over a vision of countless billions writhing in unspeakable torturous pain of an eternal lake of fire. What a HELL that would be!  ;) (Love it!)

Maybe it is time we rid ourselves of all the fabled fantasies of pagan nirvanas. Saints are never going to a geographical location on a huge rock or planet in outer space called "heaven." There will never descend out of heaven a literal city with pearly gates or streets of gold. We will never live in such a literal, physical, material city! These are symbols, metaphors, and word pictures to describe SPIRITUAL REALITIES.

Amen!

God’s kingdom is SPIRITUAL. All in God’s kingdom will be SPIRITUAL. And all this is being build on a huge SPIRITUAL ROCK—The CHRIST. Jesus Christ is the "Chief Corner Stone," the "Foundation," the "ROCK!"

I live in Miami, Florida (at the time of this writing) where they have recently completed twin towers of forty-five stories each right on the sand of Miami Beach. That is they appear to be built right on the sand. They are, in fact, anchored on many pilings driven down to solid bedrock. No one is foolish enough to spend a hundred million dollars on skyscrapers that would have sand for their foundation.

Jesus Christ is the spiritual bedrock upon which we are to become a spiritual and fit dwelling place for God. In times past God made His presence known within the physical temple at Jerusalem. But the physical tabernacle in Jerusalem is long gone. The Levitic priesthood is long gone. But there is still an high Priest:

"But Christ being come an HIGH PRIEST of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building… For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are figures of the true; but into heaven itself now to appear in the presence of God FOR US" (Heb. 9:11 & 24).

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


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Kat

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2008, 06:15:14 PM »


Hi Peggy,

This is from the article 'WHO IS THE BEAST?' in the Lake of Fire.

http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html -------------------------

SEA, EARTH, AND HEAVEN

There are three realms spoken of in Revelation: sea, earth, and heaven:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the SEA and upon the EARTH lifted up his hand to HEAVEN, and swore by Him that lives for ever and ever, [for the eons of the eons], who created HEAVEN, and the things that therein are, and the EARTH, and the things that therein are, and the SEA, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer [no longer a time of delay]" (Rev. 10:5-6).

The angels [messengers] of God communicate things from heaven to both the earth and the sea:

"And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the ANGEL which stands upon the sea and upon the earth" (Rev. 10:08).

There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God;
--------------------------------------------

Here is another excerpt from the article 'The Lucifer Hoax and the Mission of Satan' part 9 in the Lake of fire.

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html ------------

GOD’S HEAVEN IS HIGHER THAN MAN’S HEAVEN

Satan is the god of this world (I Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MAN’S concept of heaven. The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:

"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"

The king of Babylon had a dream, and in the dream his kingdom was likened to a tree:

"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached into HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:11).

The kingdom of Babylon didn’t grow into GOD’S heaven, that’s for sure. No, Daniel identifies who the tree represents:

"The tree that you saw… It is YOU, O king, that are grown and become strong: for your greatness is grown, and reached unto HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:20a & 22).

The king of Babylon reached the same heaven that the city of Capernaum reached:

"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).

Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."

Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).

God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.

Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,

"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).

Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).

It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."
----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 06:20:06 PM by Kat »
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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

CEO

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 07:27:54 PM »

Kat

Where is your excellent insight comparing  Cor 3:15 gold and precious stones

Rev 21 new heaven new earth paved with gold and built with precious stones?

Thanks

Charles O
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Kat

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 10:27:45 PM »


Hi Charles,

We have a forum rule of no teaching and that thread ventured a little too much in that direction, so it was best that I removed it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

ez2u

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2008, 01:09:11 AM »

Hi Joe, kat  thanks all of you for your input  It was what I was thinking too heaven right here developing in us.  good post Alex :D  peggy
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truthistforjesus

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2008, 10:24:45 PM »

Hello Peggy.  Wonderful question.  I will follow with another.  What do you think we will be doing when we die and go to 'heaven'.  Also, death in and of itself is a natural part of life.  Everyone is born, everyone will die.  We surely are far from perfect beings.  Some are barely considered human, much less a spirit, which part of us is.  Our souls will embark on a wonderful adventure in the learning of God.  This will take place for eternity.  Our eternal souls interacting with our creator Jesus/Father, for an infinite number of years.  We will be studying creation, other created beings, angels, perfectly created angels, and most importantly, our relationship with these.... 'Be you perfect, even as I am perfect'.  Sound familiar.  It will be an endless discovery of truth, beauty, and goodness.   The goodness of God.   
Wonderful question Peggy.  Please ask more!

Love
TFJ
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Kat

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 11:28:10 PM »


Hi TFJ,

Here are a few of the forum rules:

If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying  www.bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.

This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.

If you seriously disagree with Ray, please email him directly.
-------------------------------------------------------------

You state...

Quote
I will follow with another.  What do you think we will be doing when we die and go to 'heaven'.

This is totally contrary to what Ray teaches.  Here is an excerpt from the part A of the 'HELL' series.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-A.html --------------------------

ARE THE DEAD, DEAD?

How is it possible to teach Christian indoctrinated people the Truths of God? Well, of course, without the spirit of God it is completely impossible for them to understand. When people cannot even wrap their minds around the truth that “dead people are really DEAD,” there is little one can do to help them. Dead people do not “GO” anywhere. Good dead people do not go to heaven to float on clouds and walk streets of gold, and bad dead people do not go to a place called hell to be tortured in fire for all eternity. Dead people are dead and will remain dead until the “Resurrection from the DEAD,” and that resurrection is yet FUTURE.
--------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

lilitalienboi16

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 02:39:10 AM »

Hello Peggy.  Wonderful question.  I will follow with another.  What do you think we will be doing when we die and go to 'heaven'.  Also, death in and of itself is a natural part of life.  Everyone is born, everyone will die.  We surely are far from perfect beings.  Some are barely considered human, much less a spirit, which part of us is.  Our souls will embark on a wonderful adventure in the learning of God.  This will take place for eternity.  Our eternal souls interacting with our creator Jesus/Father, for an infinite number of years.  We will be studying creation, other created beings, angels, perfectly created angels, and most importantly, our relationship with these.... 'Be you perfect, even as I am perfect'.  Sound familiar.  It will be an endless discovery of truth, beauty, and goodness.   The goodness of God.   
Wonderful question Peggy.  Please ask more!

Love
TFJ

Just curiouse TFJ, but in saying "Eternal souls" were you saying that our souls are immortal?

Just asking for alittle clarification.

In Christ,

Alex
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Sorin

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 03:11:05 AM »

I believe so, Alex, yeah. But whether our souls are immortal or not; is really immaterial because 'the dead know not anything'...so whether you are dead for a year, or a billion years, it will still seem like a second to you. Therefore, if we are all going to be resurrected, then in that sense, it is as if we never have died at all from our own personal point of view. But of course our souls are not immortal; I can't believe
Christians believe that it is. Haven't they ever read their Bibles?

1 Cor 15:12-22

 12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

 16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

---------------

What's the big deal about people 'rising from the dead', if they never really die in the first place {i.e. immortal souls}?




**scratches head**




« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 03:33:40 AM by Sorin »
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ez2u

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 03:17:16 AM »

kat  i just was able to read your post and it was very insightful.  Lately I have been seeing this carnal heaven too and I just couldn't put words to my thoughts  here is a link that I believe is part of the delusion that is here now spreading fast on this earth on heaven and who is God.  The world is saying we are God and have a earthly heaven.  you made it very clear in your post of the truth by the scriptures  thank you  it has been very insightful and helpful in my growth.  peggy
**link not allowed**

what kat says here is very important there is a real delusion going on in this country with new age it is entwine with witchcraft and exalting self into a god state the link i present here shows how deluded that message of new age is   i am personally going to carry this message to others to hear the truth  and know there is one true God and His son Jesus Christ the lamb of God that takes away the sins of this world.  peggy
 Kat  I read the lake of fire  i did not get this my mind  has been slow to understand  i must read again and again until my mind is renew.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 11:21:11 AM by ez2u »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: What about Heaven?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 04:02:49 AM »

I believe so, Alex, yeah. But whether our souls are immortal or not; is really immaterial because 'the dead know not anything'...so whether you are dead for a year, or a billion years, it will still seem like a second to you. Therefore, if we are all going to be resurrected, then in that sense, it is as if we never have died at all from our own personal point of view. But of course our souls are not immortal; I can't believe
Christians believe that it is. Haven't they ever read their Bibles?

1 Cor 15:12-22

 12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

 16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

---------------

What's the big deal about people 'rising from the dead', if they never really die in the first place {i.e. immortal souls}?




**scratches head**






I agree, however i ask because i am uncertain of what TFJ believes and so i am being careful =]

Thanks and God bless,

Alex
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