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[Kat]

I have heard several accounts of what Christ suffered during the crucifixion, but I found this one to be particularly informative.  It is a reprinted from JAMA - The Journal of the American Medical Association (1986).
This is a very detailed description of what Christ may have suffered physically during the night before the crucifixion, and what He endured during the trials, the scourging, and the crucifixion.
Again this is a very graphic physical description (with pics) of what may have medically happened to his body during these events.  So be aware if you a bit on the squeamish side.

http://www.brainshavings.com/supplements/crucifixion/

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Most interesting. Thank you Kat. 

The one thing that was incorrectly assumed was quote :The rigors of Jesus' ministry (that is, traveling by foot throughout Palestine) would have precluded any major physical illness or a weak general constitution. Accordingly, it is reasonable to assume that Jesus was in good physical condition before his walk to Gethsemane.

We have the precious insight into the statement Luke 4 : 23 You will doubtless quote to Me this proverb: Physician, heal Yourself! that is clarified through Ray's teachings that give evidence that Jesus was a sickly person who carried diseases and ailment in his body and was not the Hollywood picture of health.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Gary McCoy]

Very interesting reading. Thanks for posting this.

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus,

I did notice that comment, they simply still have the understanding of the church on this aspect of Christ.  Thanks for bring forth Ray statement.

I did find the meticulous details that these people in the medical field show that most likely happened to Him physically body, to be astounding what He endured, what love !!!

Rom 5:8  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

p.s. Hi Gary, interesting indeed.

[Beloved]

Technically speaking Jesus physical body started dying shortly after his conception. That is the human condition in which He tabernancled. 

John the baptist  was totally miffed by Jesus when he came to the Jordan. His baptism was not for repentence of sin  it signified the spiritual beginning of his ministry and the promised road to death. The REASON why he was sent.

That is the mystery that the church doesn't really get ...that life come through death even thougn it is repeated many time. They still believe that Jesus died for them or instead of them, a substitution. 

They do not understand that we are expected to follow Christ in his footsteps....not exactly to a physical wooden cross.... but to the unique cross that He has ordained for each of us.

All who follow Christ will feel the hate and spit and the shame and be partakers of His suffering. They will be dead and laying outside the city on the streets. On one level they are the two witnesses (themselves and christ)

I have read several of the autposy and foresnic reports and they are all gruesome.   Dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return," is a penalty that every man must himself bear.

beloved

[gmik]

Amazing.  Very interesting.  Great insight Beloved!

[David]

John the baptist  was totally miffed by Jesus when he came to the Jordan. His baptism was not for repentence of sin  it signified the spiritual beginning of his ministry and the promised road to death. The REASON why he was sent.

I've always wondered about the relationship between John and Christ. There are a couple of scriptures that suggest John did not entirely believe that Christ was "the One"....Matt 11:2-6  "2Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 3And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 4Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.  6And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."

Luke 7:18-23 18And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things. 19And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? 20When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?   21And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 22Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.  23And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

In Matthew 11:11 and Luke 7:28 it appears that Christ is speaking very highly of John, until He says ......."but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

Even though John was sent of God, was the greatest of ALL the prophets, he was still flesh and blood and had doubts it would seem from these scriptures.

[Beloved]

Again John was still miffed...He too thought that the Savior would restore...he was interested in the physical things like the Pharisees or Sadducess he was looking for the religious reform.

He was the friend of the bridegroom, the voice in the wilderness and now he was sitting in a dungeon waiting for the captive to be sent free.  Jesus seemed to be ignoring that fact, he was not baptizing anyone and possibly at that time the crowds were starting to deminis a bit. John was getting concerned that perhaps he made a mistake.

You are right we all go through this phase of dobt when we are not loooking at Christ and the spiritual and are looking at the physical.

John was the greatest in that generation in that he was on guard and was looking for the messiah, he had seen some prophesy come to pass, BUT he would still be considered the least when compared to those saints who actually Followed Christ in the WAY, especially not having even seen him in the physical..

John was set free from prison just not in the way he imagined. We are not to be offended by HOW God brings things to pass.

Beloved

[Kat]

Hi David,

Interesting question.  I'm looking at this from a little different perspective.

When you realize that John had seen the Spirit of God descending on Jesus at His baptism and heard a voice from heaven declaring Him the Son of God (Matt 3:16-17) and had so often pointed Jesus out to others, that He was the Lamb of God (John 1:29,36), and bridegroom of His church (John 3:29).  I think without a doubt John knew who Jesus was.
Maybe John was anticipating his own death, so he sent his disciples to Christ so that they would have assurance that Christ was the Messiah.
I think Jesus understood why John sent his disciples to Him too.  
Notice what they asked Jesus, seems to be a little bit of a question in their minds.

Luke 7:20  When the men had come to Him, they said, "John the Baptist has sent us to You, saying, "Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?"'
v. 21  And that very hour He cured many of infirmities, afflictions, and evil spirits; and to many blind He gave sight.
v. 22  Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them.
v. 23  And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me."

Jesus showed them who He was by demonstrating to them and after witnessing His power I don't think there could be any doubt then.  So John could rest assured that after his own death, his disciples would follow Jesus.

Hope this helped, that is the way I'm looking at this anyway  

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[David]

Hi Kat,
Bless you for sharing your insight. I can see where your perspective is coming from, and it makes sense. I still see verse 19 of Luke 7 as reading that John called his disciples to him and sent them to Jesus with the question, then they went to Christ and put the question to him, as though it were a question from John in verse 20.  When Christ answers them in verse 22 he tells them to go their way and tell John what they had seen. This seems to me that Christ is answering a question from John and they are to report back to him with the answer......which would suggest despite what John had seen when he Baptized Jesus, he still had an element of doubt in his mind. I see verse 23 as a rebuke, both to them and to anyone that doubts him.................or maybe I'm paying too much attention to the words 
This is how I see it anyway.
God bless you
David.