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The Thief With Christ in Paradise

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isukusa:
All:
I've read Rays' work on the grave and eternal punishment but I'm still having a problem with Lk. 23:43 where Jesus says to the thief, "...today thou shalt be with me in paradise." If after we die we are dead and in the grave awaiting the resurrection how can the thief be with Christ in paradise that day? Can anyone help me with this?

David
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Sorin:
Sure thing,

Jesus wasn't telling the thief that he would be with him in paradise on that very day. Even Jesus wasn't in paradise, he was dead. The dead can not be in paradise, and even if they were they wouldn't know it--they're dead.

What Jesus said to him was more along the lines of; I'm a telling you today, you will be with me in paradise {someday}.

But of course our faithful Christian Scholars had to mess that translation up as well, and put the comma in the wrong place.
Hence the confusion which leads to contradictions.

-Sorin

David:
Well said Sorin.......I emailed Ray about this very same question last year, and he cleared it up for me. Just the moving of the commer makes all the difference to that statement. What most in the Church fail to see is, if Luke 23:43 were a correct translation, it contradicts John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

 Be blessed
David

jerreye:

--- Quote ---“Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”
--- End quote ---

Yes, however, many in the church teach that Paradise isn't where the Father dwells, but where Abraham and all the other "faithful Israelites" were before the resurrection of Christ...aka, "Abraham's Bosom". This is what Kenneth Copeland and others teach. This is what my father taught me, as he was Kenneth Copland's right hand man during the 80's and early 90's...needless to say, I was a brainwashed child!

It's amazing what they will say, just to "cling" (pun intended) on to their false doctrines!

Jeremy

Dante:

--- Quote from: David on March 27, 2008, 06:51:01 PM --- John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

--- End quote ---

I E-Mailed Ray about John 20:17 to ask him why the heck Jesus didn't want anyone touching him.
He cleared that one up for me too.
Translations can mess up God's Word badly.  :(

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