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Author Topic: 1000 yrs.  (Read 5171 times)

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phyllis

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1000 yrs.
« on: April 05, 2008, 12:49:59 PM »

Peace be with you and yours, The first resurrection will be all those who died in Christs name. and they help set up Christ kingdom here on earth. then they will rule for 1000 yrs. what's going on during this time? Who are they ruling? There's those who died in Christ and Christ himself. Question: after the 1000 yrs. There's the second resurrection when anybody that's not found in the book of life they are thrown into the lake of fire. This is my question: before we get thrown into the lake of fire we are changed into spirit? Then after we've done our time in the lake, what then? Now after the second resurrection and after we've did our time do we enter the kingdom? If so what will we be doing? Are we still on earth. Are we going to be able to go to and fro thew universe? When Christ says that satin will be released for a little while, When is this and is he still the same old satin? Is there a 3rd resurrection? After all mankind is saved, where are we? what will we be doing? Are we with our earthly family members? What is going to happen?
                                                                                                                                                                     
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2008, 06:20:48 PM »

Hello Phyllis

Your thoughts that you have posted do not reflect what we have learnt here in BT. For example, you say that the after the 1000 years the second resurrection....

This is not a true reflection of what the Scriptures say. It is how the Church teaches and this is a false teaching.

Quoting Ray :

.......  Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don’t have a clue.  Not only do they not have the answers, they don’t even know what the problems are.   
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  …And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here.  I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time.  There is a problem, that won’t work and I can’t make it work.  It doesn’t fit, there is no way to make this thing fit.  Then some months ago, now I know why it, “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” won’t fit.  It’s not Scripture!  Tischendorf has it right there.

-Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
It’s not in the Sinaiticus.  So I said, okay now we’re moving again.  We’re a little closer to the Truth. 


To get your teeth into this you will need to study the entire teaching at http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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phyllis

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2008, 11:58:15 PM »

Thank you for your input arcturus.
                    I never said what I wrote was the truth. I asked the question. I said that all who died in Christ will be in the frist resurrection. They will help Christ set up His kingdom here on earth (correct)? Then I said after a thousand yrs. the second resurrection will happen (correct)? Both of these are questions, Not a state of facts. Are you sure this is not the correct order?
                                             peace be with you and yours.
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Falconn003

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2008, 12:22:14 AM »

Anyone know when the return of dinosaurs will come again ???

Rodger
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joyful1

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2008, 02:08:18 AM »

;D just as soon as they find a way to inject the DNA they took out of the dinosaur bones into the aliens they're keeping in Area 51.

LOL! my apologies for this uncalled for outburst of humor girls....just had to respond to Rodger. Therefore...its all his fault!

Joyce :)
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jerreye

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2008, 06:58:09 AM »

Arcturus, what do you believe is the order of events concerning the two resurrections? Is it your opinion that they happen at the same time just before the 1000Yrs?

I find this interesting, since we know that the Beast and the False Prophet are cast into the LOF at the START of the 1000 yrs. If mankind IS that beast, then that would mean they are resurrected at the start and are judged/cast into the LOF at that time. In other words, the LOF occurs during the 1000 yrs...(???) I always thought the LOF didn't start until the END of the 1000yrs, just after the city is surrounded and fire comes to destroy the wicked (just after Satan is released and deceives the earth)

I haven't done enough study on this to know too much about it yet, but I hope more light is shed on this.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2008, 09:46:26 AM »

Too cute Falconn003 and cryogenic DNA that is a point Joyful1 lol 

jerreye yes I see your question. Perhaps this will lend itself to a better explanation.

1 Thes 4 : 16 FIRST all the Christians ( not the pagans, not the wicked, not the unbelievers. ) who have died will rise from their graves. 17. Then TOGETHER WITH THEM, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever. So comfort and encourage each other with these words.


Beautiful words!

I find no mention of pagans together with them but I do find FIRST all the Christians and THEN TOGETHER which leaves to my mind that the LOF will be to those who experience the return of Christ with His Elect who have  already met Him together with the Christians who died. These shall return to the earth and then the 1000 year rule will begin for those who will be taught righteousness when His return is come.  Well that is how I see it. Hope this comforts and encourages us all. :)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 09:49:21 AM by Arcturus »
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joyful1

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2008, 10:46:57 AM »

I find no mention of pagans together with them but I do find FIRST all the Christians and THEN TOGETHER which leaves to my mind that the LOF will be to those who experience the return of Christ with His Elect who have  already met Him together with the Christians who died. These shall return to the earth and then the 1000 year rule will begin for those who will be taught righteousness when His return is come.

So, Debs, just to establish what you've said; you believe that the 1000 year rule IS the LOF for the unbeliever?

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html
Joyce :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2008, 02:41:09 PM »

Hi Joyful1

Yes. That is how I see it. Rightly or wrongly this is how I understand the sequence. I do not see that the wrath of God has come or that the Day of the Lord has yet come either.

Refer also to Rays teaching JUDGMENT BY FIRE MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html Ray shows that there are quote : TWO AREAS AND ERAS OF JUDGMENT. Note how Ray shows us the Truth. Quote : We know for a fact that there is coming a WORLDWIDE judgment on mankind, for Scripture has stated such:

"Because He hath appointed A DAY, in which He will JUDGE THE WORLD [Greek" inhabited earth] in righteousness ..." (Acts 17:31).

Most have at least heard of this judgment even if they have no solid understanding of what it is all about or its primary purpose. We will have a great deal to say about this judgment later. But first we will take a look at another judgment almost universally unknown in the world of Christendom. It is a judgment that involves believers, NOW!


We know that the Day of the Lord is the WTJ right?

Thanks for posting the link to LOF 10. You know how it is when we read Rays teachings over and over again and something will slip past until WOW...I did not see THAT before...Well here is a WOW moment! Quote..

evil’s Authorship...... is one of the most important truths in the whole world! It is the answer to maybe the most colossal enigma in all creation....

Is that not awesome!

Peace to you Sister

Deborah :)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 02:42:51 PM by Arcturus »
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phyllis

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2008, 08:14:10 PM »

Peace be with you all!
           I'm so glad to see this response to this post. This is wonderfull! Let me just say once again on my take on the order of the resurrection.

1.All the people who died in Christ, will be in the first resurrection. The chosen ones who are alive on this earth will meet Christ in the clouds and come down to earth defeat satan and his menions. Then Christ and the elect will reign with Christ 1000yrs. Here on this earth.

2.After the 1000yrs. of Christ's reign The and resurrection will happen. All the rest of humankind Will rise and be judge. Those who are found in the book of life (in Christ) will be changed to spirit. The one who are not found in the book of life will be sentence(punished) in the lake of fire. After their punishment they will be changed into spirit and enter the kingdom with the others. This kingdom will be here on earth. After All is said and done Jesus will turn the reigns over to His Father (God). Where we ALL will be part of his family. How does this scenario sound to y'all?
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joyful1

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2008, 07:23:35 AM »

Hi Phyllis-
I don't know all the answers to your questions, but I do want to correct my last statement to Arcturus before this goes any further....because of the importance of establishing truth.

Arc...I mistakenly quoted section 10 of the LOF ....I meant section 12.
In that section, Ray clearly gives us the facts to show that the elect (together with Christ Jesus) ARE the LOF. and it is through the safe harbour of the LOF that everyone must pass. Here is the progression of thought on that....


http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!


Now...one last word, which may help Phyillis as well...
I found this statement in http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm


The Elect will reign and JUDGE the nations not only through the millennium, but also for the whole period of the Great White Throne/Lake of fire/Second death judgment.

I believe that Ray gives ALL the meanings of the word JUDGE in another area which shows that there are different functions that the body of Christ will be performing throughout these 2 eras of time.
This is a crucial subject for me....I've poured over Ray's papers for so long now and still am uncertain as to the answers to your questions, Phyillis. Interesting thread.....looking forward to its continuation!
Joyce :)
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Beloved

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2008, 12:31:32 PM »

-Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

This might be a spurous text but also you may not be reading this spiritually. Also perhaps God allowed it to be there to mislead some but to others the text is there because it is true in spiritually.

The way I see this text is that both the elect and those not in tha group are ressurected at the same time, but the spiritually dead (those non elect) will not "live in the spiritual sense  "again"  until they complete the LOF which may take whatever time needed (ie 1000 yrs)...

The elect were physically dead but at the ressurrection are already spiritually alive at the time. The rest of the physically dead are not spiritually alive yet.

Psa 50:10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.   There are certainly more than just this number, so thousand is a metafor for an unspecified number

Ecc 6:6  Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?  Not only do both die physically but All will go through the LOF. One durng their timehere on earth and the other later.

Isa 60:22  A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

These little ones are those not mature in Christ at the ressurrection and not overcomers and will go through a period of maturing. The small ones, are those who died to self, are humbled and were in Christ at ressurrection these  are the elect who will rule and reign (serves as shepards and priests) not rule and reign as in the world

I cannot wait until Ray does his paper on this topic

beoved

« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 01:45:03 PM by Beloved »
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joyful1

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2008, 01:20:46 PM »

RV 20:5  has been an especially "confusing" one to reconcile for me! I've often followed a scenario of end-time events and come to that ONE scripture and not been able to go any further.
Joyce :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2008, 04:27:47 PM »


I see that the Day of the Lord is the start of the Millennial reign of Christ and His Government upon the earth.

2 Peter 3 : 8 Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape you, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

 Joyful1 it was no mistake! I needed to read what was there for me. :D  To add I noticed also on LOF part one Rays says quote : …the Lake Burning with Fire and Brimstone. Which is the SECOND DEATH.

Beloved I see your point. Also it has been speculated that this verse was actually a margin entry that later slipped into the Scriptures. So if it was a "thought" scribbled in the margin,  it can mean that the dead are still dead until Death is overcome which is the last enemy. In this sense it is true but in separating the millennium into a period of time BE~F~ORE the judgement at the WTJ, I do not see that it is powerful enough or in line with what the Scriptures witness elsewhere.

 1 Thes 4 : 16, 17 is not invalid.  As a process that follows 1 Thes 4 : 16,17, death will be the last to be overcome but first those who have departed this life in Christ will rise FIRST....THEN we, the living ones who remain shall SIMULTANEOUSLY be caught up along with the resurrected dead in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air......

Then Christ returns with the Elect to the earth and His reign begins and the LOF WTJ commences the Day of the Lord.

I too certainly need a paper from Ray on this topic! I just can not see why Christ will come in the Millennium reign with His Elect and then wait a thousand years before the WTJ begins. Just can not see it.  ::)

1 Thes 5 : 8 but we belong to the day; therefore, let us be sober and put on the breastplate of faith and love and for a helmet the hope of salvation 9. For God has not appointed us to incur His wrath...

Peace to you

Arcturus :)



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phyllis

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2008, 04:59:55 PM »

 Peace on to you and ALL of yours!
           This is great y"all, but now I'm getting really confused. I knew there was a reason why my husband told me not to get to involved with revelations. He said I should study the teaching of Christ (The four gospels).

                                                   Thank you all
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2008, 06:59:08 PM »

I am so sorry if I confused you Phyllis. Please pardon me if that is what I did!

At the time I wrote that responce I thought I knew what I was talking about. Since then, I have learnt something so much wiser than how I put my little point of view and great big opinion across.

Don't give up. Keep on!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Kat

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2008, 08:24:07 PM »


I read through the Scriptures in Revelation and try to look for the sequence of events.  Here is as best as I can see the order, with the Scriptures put mixed up and put together as a progression of events.  I have made a few comments in parenthesis.

Rev 19:11  Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He (Jesus Christ) who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:14  And the armies (Saints) in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Rev 21:2  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 14:1  Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb (Jesus Christ) standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand (Saints), having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Rev 14:7  saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
Mat 25:32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Rev 19:19  And I saw the beast (we know what this is and it is what rules this prersent world...), the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.  ("For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh" - 2Co 10:3, this is the state of all mankind until...)
Rev 19:20  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet (those teaching deceit and heresy) who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 19:15  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword ("Word of God" - Heb. 4:12), that with it He should strike the nations (sounds like judgment - the Lake of fire). And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. ("For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness." - Isa 26:9)

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years (symbolic - age, as long as it takes)
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (according to Tischendorf this is omitted by the Sinaitic Manuscript). This is the first resurrection.

Rev 1:6  and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever (aiōn; continued duration; a space of time, an age). Amen.

1Co 15:24  Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
v. 25  For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
v. 26  The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
v. 27  For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
v. 28  Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Rev 22:20  He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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joyful1

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2008, 01:22:41 AM »

Whoah...
That is awesome! NEVER thought about it exactly that way before...wow!
Joyce :)
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Falconn003

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Re: 1000 yrs.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2008, 12:30:29 PM »

Altough these are but study notes, my writing skills are more cut and paste, not as inspired and articulate as Ray's. My hopes are someone will paint on our canvases of the SPIRIT a better worded and written article to blazen forth our Faith.

The Word of God is peotic to our SPIRITS

Rodger

« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 07:49:07 PM by Falconn003 »
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