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Author Topic: Trinity?  (Read 2266 times)

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Craig

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Trinity?
« on: April 10, 2008, 07:47:40 PM »

> I like your ministry and I'm mostly in agreement with you. I, too,
> have struggled with the topic of the Trinity. I look at John 1 and it
> clearly shows that Jesus existed with the Father from the beginning (I
> assume that means eternity past). It was Jesus (the preincarnate
> "Word") who created all things. He is the light and the source of
> life.
>
> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all
> things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4
> In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light
> shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. "
>
> Verses 6 to 8 refer to John the Baptizer who proclaimed the coming of Jesus.
>
> 6 There came a man who was sent from Go d; his name was John. 7 He came
> as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all
> men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a
> witness to the light.
>
> Returning to the "Word", John explains that the preincarnate Word was
> made flesh in the form of the god/man, Jesus, but the world did not
> recognize Him.
>
> 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the
> world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through
> him, the world did not recognise him. 11 He came to that which was his
> own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him,
> to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become
> children of God— 13 children bo rn not of natural descent, nor of human
> decision or a husband's will, but born of God. 14 The Word became
> flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the
> glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and
> truth. 15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, This
> was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because
> he was before me.' 16 From the fulness of his grace we have all
> received one blessing after another.
>
> If there is any question about whom John is referring, John names
> Jesus Christ in verse 17.
>
> 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through
> Jesus Christ. 18 No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,
> who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
>
> Jesus is "God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side".
>
> The point of all this is that the nature and composition of God is
> beyond our capacity to comprehend. God gives us fleeting glimpses of
> Himself but there is no exhaustive section of scripture that explains
> in detail WHAT God is– that is, His composition.
>
> We do not even have the words to accurately describe Him. Our human
> words only describe what we know or what we can comprehend. The nature
> of God is simply beyond us.
>
> The theory of the Trinity is the best attempt by the church to figure
> out how God can be ONE and still be composed of God the Father, God
> the One and Only, who is at the Father's side (that is Jesus, the
> pre-existing Word) and God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4).
>
> Here is where I would take issue with you. When we depart from the
> doctrine of the Trinity, we open ourselves to any number of errors
> (such as polytheism and the heresy that man c an become God. We will
> always be subservient to God even in our resurrected state. Man can
> not become God because God alone is to be worshipped. We will never be
> worthy of worship.) The doctrine of the Trinity is limited by our
> inability to comprehend the infinite. However, it is the best we can
> do when we honestly factor in all of the information we have.
>
> I percieve your attempt to define the nature of God to be of a pure
> and sincere heart but it is not better than the doctrine of the
> Trinity.
>
> I, too, believe that we will come to a better understanding when we
> see God as He is. In the mean time, it is best to accept the Trinity
> doctrine as the best we can do for now. I encourage you in love to put
> this part of your ministry to rest. Denying the Trinity opens so many
> problems and heresies. We simply do not have enough scriptural
> information to come up with anything better.
>
> Keep up the good work, though and thank you!
> Rich


Dear Rich: I have three hundred unanswered emails ahead of yours waiting for me, but I thought just a short word for you since I do not intent to continue this discussion. Rejecting the pagan "trinity" does NOT open a plethora of errors as you erroneously suggest. I do NOT teach personal theories regarding Whom God is, I use SCRIPTURE, as I am sure you have noticed. Also your phrase "God the Holy Spirit" is TOTALLY UNSCRIPTURAL. There is no such phrase in all Scripture. And no, Jesus has NOT existed from eternity past (or however one would say that).  Jesus was there with the Father IN THE BEGINNING, in the beginning of creation of all things. God the Father DOES NOT HAVE A BEGINNING. Jesus is "the beginning" of God's Creation. And yes, I have a Scripture for that (Rev. 3:14). See also John 17:5 where Jesus asks to have returned to Him the glory which He had with His Father from before the "world" was created, not from eternity.
God be with you,
Ray
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