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lose God
indianabob:
I agree with all that you have written thus far Kat,
but since God is able to create circumstances that will motivate our choices and direct our path.
why aren't the ones Christ knows are his going to be elected even though they were not as eager
as others? Isn't it still about God having the power to purify us by whatever means He chooses?
Paul said he had to beat his own body to keep it UNDER, but he also noted that God gave him a
thorn in the flesh to keep him in the frame of mind to seek strength from God and to repent often.
God wasn't going to LET Paul fail.. ? ? Was He?
God wasn't going to LET Jesus fail ! !
I would like some additional clarification on this aspect.
Thank you, Indianabob
Craig:
--- Quote ---God wasn't going to LET Paul fail.. ? ? Was He?
--- End quote ---
No he was not, but the important point is Paul did not know for sure. He had the great hope and said he ran the good race but in the end it is in the Fathers hand and we must endure and fight the good fight to be found approved.
Craig
indianabob:
Thank you Craig,
You are correct of course, but couldn't this appear like free will at work to the newbie?
Couldn't a person think that even though we don't have free will, that in the end God could just give up on us and find us not suitable to the first resurrection?
Of course God is yet sovereign and His will shall be done, but do you see where the question arises?
I'm more inclined to think that God will arrange circumstances for me as he apparently did for Paul, such that I will finish the course set before me even if he has to poke me with a stick all the way to the end. This is not my doctrine or dogma, I'm just voicing my questions and thoughts that I have picked up from others on the forum or out of my own imagination.
Thanks for any additional comments.
Indianabob
Kat:
Hi Bob,
Well what it seems to me is that there are those who are the Elect, chosen from the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4), they will not fail.
Now there are those who will have their eyes opened to some of this truth and even be among the Elect, but they are not the Elect. They will for many various reason fall away as in the parable, they were never going to endure to the end. Do not we have tares that look just like the wheat? They will be among the Elect and I they do learn the Truths, but one is not aware that they are a tare and are not the Elect and will not be in the first resurrection :-\
That is why this is likened to a race, we can not rest on our laurels, we have to keep running. And how do we know if we are one of the Elect? If we never stop running until the end and we make it to the Finish line. But of course we won't know for sure we will make it to the finish line until we actually do. Paul only knew he made it right at the very end, just as he was coming to the finish line, because his death was near.
2Tim 4:6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
v. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
v. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
It is not given for us to know for sure we are the Elect, God knows human nature to good to give us that kind of knowledge.
2Peter 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Heb 3:12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
As Paul states earlier in his ministry we must keep running the race, so that we will obtain the prize.
1Cor 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.
v. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.
v. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
v. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
winner08:
Kat you mention earlyer that the elect is directed by the Holy Spirit. Are the many being called have they got the holy spirit directing them. I thought to even understand Ray's teachings, you would have to have the Spirit directing you. You would have to have the Spirit in you in order to understand. Is this not correct?
Thank you
Darren
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