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Sons Of Thunder
mharrell08:
Vanityandvextation,
Forgive me, but I don't really get what you are trying to point out. Did you see this from my original post:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on April 21, 2008, 08:11:51 PM --- I think a carpenter was a perfect "parable" for our Lord and Savior.
Marques
--- End quote ---
The "significance" of understanding the literal is to understand the spiritual truth. How can you have any allegory without the symbol from which it came from?You cannot have symbolism without a symbol. That's what this thread was started from, John & James being (literally) named "sons of thunder" and the spiritual allegory of its meaning. Hope that helps.
Marques
hillsbororiver:
Last month when I started this topic my focus was on the humorous way the Lord addressed James and John which was in a sense a two edged sword, some very cutting humor indeed, having been on the receiving end of such a (truthful) sarcasm myself I can attest to it's economical yet effective result. It can really open your eyes to your true motives and mindset, cutting through any self righteousness or justification.
As I was searching for more examples of this I came across Jonah and while it did not provoke a laugh or chuckle on my part I did see that Jonah was actually of the same (carnal) mind that James and John were guilty of, it does not say that James and/or John were angry with Jesus for calling them on their lack of compassion but it would be safe to say at the least they were embarrassed maybe ashamed, check out this chapter from the Book of Jonah;
(For more background read Chapter 3 as well)
Jonah 4
Jonah's Anger at the Lord 's Compassion
1 But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry. 2 He prayed to the LORD, "O LORD, is this not what I said when I was still at home? That is why I was so quick to flee to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live."
4 But the LORD replied, "Have you any right to be angry?"
5 Jonah went out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live."
9 But God said to Jonah, "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?"
"I do," he said. "I am angry enough to die."
10 But the LORD said, "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"
Once again we can relate this type of attitude to the proponents of an eternal hell and the anticipation even joy some "Christians" take in the thought of their enemies being tortured and destroyed, where is the compassion? Where is the concern for humanity?
Look at how Jonah makes a shelter for himself to have a comfortable place to watch the city be destroyed, God even makes it even more accommodating by this vine He grows to provide more shade, but as the day approaches this vine is attacked and overcome by a worm (serpent?) Jonah's comfort level is severely reduced to the point of wanting to die. Can we see any connection to what some believe awaits most of humanity? Even taking a morbid and perverted pleasure in the idea?
Perhaps we can even take this a step further and ask ourselves if we relish the idea of the Lake Of Fire as being the place where "God will get them." Would God find this sentiment pleasing to Him?
If we search the scriptures we find throughout His Word that He is indeed a merciful God desiring (and creating) merciful Sons and Daughters, He will not fail.
Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings
Micah 7:18 Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy.
Zechariah 7:9 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another.'
Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
James 2:12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
Peace,
Joe
Stevernator:
Excellent post Joe. The vengeful attitude of those you mentioned is also similar to the elder brother in the parable of the prodigal son, the people who chose Barabas over Jesus and the servant whose large debt was forgiven but who punished his debtor.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[a]'
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'
28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'
31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "
Luke 15:11-32
What a wonderful illustration of the character of God.
ez2u:
Joe we are blind and deaf Jonah was a advance man in the Lord Look what God had given him the ability to go to a city and speak the Word of the Lord and still the carnal nature pops its ugly head up. I know a little about that. Earlier on I was going to a pretty active church for a few months and I attended the ladies meeting. Which there was an encouragement to bring all the money you could into the store house, which their church was assigned to be the place to do so. I was at the meeting and we were singing and praises Jesus my hands lifted up and my voice when the Spirit of the Lord spoke to me to speak and tell them not to do this. I said no Lord if I do this they will kick me out of this church, and just then it was like God left me and I had no reason to raise my hands to the Lord. I felt empty. So I sat down and thought for a minute about this situation and decided to do what I was told. I stood up and spoke the Words the Lord Jesus Christ gave me and all knew it was God. Every one rushed to the front and repented and declared God had spoken. About a week later I was asked to find a different church. Peggy
hillsbororiver:
Hi Steve,
That was a great observation on the Prodigal Son, his brother had no mercy nor did he have any joy in the fact that his younger brother was not only alive but restored, we do see this theme intertwined though the bible, those who recognize the errors being made by those around them and pray (or hope) for their destruction and then we have others (Abraham & Moses come to mind) who pray and even contend with God for their (the people) deliverence.
I believe we know what God prefers and rewards.
Peace,
Joe
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