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Craig

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Beginning
« on: April 22, 2008, 07:48:39 PM »

        Thank you Ray for your response to my question.I realize that it is a labor of love for you to read and answer as many emails as you do.So I appreciate your taking the time to even respond to my question.

        With that being said,I will understand if you do not respond to this reply.In fact it is quite alright with me if only you read this to understand where I am coming from.

        I did read your paper on the trinity,several times in fact before I decided to write and ask you a question.Unfortunately Ray when you have had concepts and understandings deeply ingrained in your mind,it is most unlikely that you can reverse directions easily,or quickly.

        I was blessed by your writing on the trinity,as well as the many other articles I have read of yours.I understand the nonsense as you put it,saying or suggesting that Jesus is his own father.

        I fully understa nd and agree that Jesus,that person who took on flesh and came to earth is indeed the son of God,and being a son is not the father.My contention whether true,or just a mental trap that I'm stuck in, is that the eternal God who is spirit.

        Says that in the beginning was the word,or logos.This beginning speaks not of time,but eternity.As it states that he was with God the father in the beginning.So if Jesus was and is eternal as God is as well,what does it mean to say that he was begotten,or created?

        Begotten or created speaks to coming into existence at some point in time.This is why I asked why can we not just say that Jesus was and is the logos that took on flesh.If it is correct to look at it in this way,we can see that it is not entirely nonsense to suggest that Jesus is God the father in flesh,as he is the word of God the father the exact same substance as God the father wrapped up in flesh.

        I know you don't have time to read long emails so I'll stop right h ere and hope that you will have read it and understand that I'm not given to yield myself intentionally to doctrine that is based in nonsense.

        Thanks for all that you do Ray,

        Steve


        Dear Steve: I have said many times that when one begins with a FALSE PREMISE, everything that he builds on that false premise will ultimately also end in error. Notice your statement:

        "I'm stuck in, is that the eternal God who is spirit, says that in the beginning was the word,or logos.This beginning speaks not of time, but eternity."

        Where did you ever come up with that, Steve?  Eternity HAS NO BEGINNING.

        Joh 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by Him..."

        "In the beginning..." is a starting point in time of something new. And Jesus Christ IS "the beginning of the creation of God" (Rev. 3:14).  Creation is something new, it is not eternal.

        In Scripture, we read of the "beginning" of things and events, never the "beginning of God." God was BEFORE ANY BEGINNING, seeing that God HAS NO BEGINNING.

        Hope this helps your understanding.

        God be with you,

        Ray


         
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