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Was the Apocrypha included in the original KJV meant to be canonical?
Kat:
Hi Roy,
I guess it is interesting to read the books that are not found in the Bible. But we can be assured that what we do have is all that is necessary for the Old Testment.
This might be of interest, I put together some excerpts from the 2007 conference 'How we got the Bible,' this gives an idea of how the OT Scripture was canonized, so we know that it is complete.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html ----------
Moses was the first one to set aside books and say this is the Word of God. He had records. It isn’t that God told him everything up there on the mountain, he did have records.
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The next people who either write and/or set aside books to canonize Scripture was David and Solomon.
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KING HEZEKIAH AND ISAIAH - The Third To Canonize.
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JOSIAH AND JEREMIAH -The Fourth To Canonize Scripture
King Josiah officially recognized and teaches that all should follow ALL THE BOOKS and practices of Temple worship codified and canonized before him.
Jeremiah’s prophecies and some of the minor prophets were also recognized at this time.
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EZRA - Finalized The Canonization Of The Old Testament
It was Ezra who wrote I and II Chronicles (originally one book) 500 years after David and Solomon. He wrote Ezra and maybe Nehemiah. Some scholars think Ezra wrote all of those - I and II Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, but be that as it may. Ezra recorded what happened way back then and how the different books came to be recognized as the official canon of Scripture. He was the last one to put his approval on what’s Hebrew Scripture.
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Ezra edited some books to make them more understandable. Example, Deut. 34: 5-12 was added by Ezra. Moses did not record his own death.
All other periods of canonization are of little importance compared to that of Ezra, who made the final decision on all books.
But Ezra edited numerous books to bring them up to date. He wrote the Book of Ezra, the Book of Nehemiah was previously known as II Ezra and he wrote I and II Chronicles. He wrote THE LAST BOOKS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!
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So anybody that knew Ezra was a man of God and all those at that time Hezekiah, Josiah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Daniel and Isaiah these were prominent people, so whatever they said was Scripture, was accepted.
Because from here on, about 450 BC, we had no Scriptural history for 4 ½ centuries. We go from II Chronicles to Matthew and there is no history. Now some of the books that are Apocryphal books may be accurate history, it‘s just that they are not necessarily to be Scripture.
v
So the original proper numbering of the books of the Old Testament should be 22. The Jews always had 22 books in all their synagogues, so where did the King James and most others get 39?
But you can see where we get that, you combine Joshua and Judges into one book. I and II Kings and I and II Samuel is the Book of the Kingdoms. Ezra and Nehemiah is one book. The 12 minor prophets always one book. They didn’t add any new books, they merely numbered them differently.
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22 Is A Number Of Completeness
The number 22 completes the Hebrew alphabet. All that can be said can be said using these 22 letters. You can write every book there is with 22 letters. So the idea being everything that God had to say to us in the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures could be said in those 22 letters and it’s done in 22 books. God always has a purpose for numbers and things like that.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Roy Monis:
Hi! Kathy
Yea it's me again. Thanks for the info, I have downloaded and printed out 85 pages of the 2007 conference and will be giving it a lot of attention. Only what was troubling me was the 2 books of Esdras. Now Joe has confused me all the more by increasing the two to six books. Ezra as we know him in the Bible is a 4Th.century BC scribe, and the Esdras in the apocrypha is more 1st. century AD. They can't have been written by the same scribe, so who impersonated Esdras or Ezra and wrote the 1-6 books? Just inquisitiveness on my part that's all.
Thanks again for your help.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy
Kat:
Hi Roy,
I got this From Wikipedia, I hope it doesn't add to the confusion.
The two books universally considered canonical were originally one book titled Ezra or Esdras. In the early middle ages, the Hebrew and Latin bibles began to divide it into two books, which were titled Ezra and Nehemiah in Hebrew and 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras.
Another non-canonical book is contained in some Latin bibles as 4 Esdras and some Slavonic manuscripts as 3 Esdras.
Chapters 3-14, or the great bulk of 2 Esdras, are a Jewish apocalypse also sometimes known as 4 Ezra, or the Jewish Apocalypse of Ezra.
The first two chapters of 2 Esdras are found only in the Latin version of the book, and are called 5 Ezra by scholars.
The last two chapters, also called 6 Ezra by scholars, and found in the Latin, but not in the Eastern texts.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
.... Like Ray also has experienced as I understand what he said in his latest Bible study that when looking for meaning in the Word of God, he can not find it even though he researches hours and hours on what others have said and think. That others may think and know more is not the dispute or in contention. There are many who know more, better or are far superior in their standing in obedience and submission to God. Just look at Peter and John. Jesus said to Peter what is he to you, YOU FOLLOW ME! I think this is very important. No matter where we are in our knowledge or standing with God, each of us has the call to follow HIM and not popular opinion, comparisons and approvals.
As for me, I am most grateful for the peace of a restful acceptance that the Ezra in my Bible is the one that should be there, and is authorised as inspiration from God. Of course all the periphery and jostling for effect assumptions, false teachings and easy on the ear sooth sayings, are also part of the design and plan of God that will fulfill His Word that few are chosen who enter by the narrow gate.
Peace to you
Arcturus
Roy Monis:
--- Quote from: Kat on May 06, 2008, 03:40:50 PM ---
Hi Roy,
I got this From Wikipedia, I hope it doesn't add to the confusion.
The two books universally considered canonical were originally one book titled Ezra or Esdras. In the early middle ages, the Hebrew and Latin bibles began to divide it into two books, which were titled Ezra and Nehemiah in Hebrew and 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras.
Another non-canonical book is contained in some Latin bibles as 4 Esdras and some Slavonic manuscripts as 3 Esdras.
Chapters 3-14, or the great bulk of 2 Esdras, are a Jewish apocalypse also sometimes known as 4 Ezra, or the Jewish Apocalypse of Ezra.
The first two chapters of 2 Esdras are found only in the Latin version of the book, and are called 5 Ezra by scholars.
The last two chapters, also called 6 Ezra by scholars, and found in the Latin, but not in the Eastern texts.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Hi! Kat
I agree; confusing and now even more confusing. These so called intellectuals do mess round with things they know nothing about, as Ray says, making the simple difficult. Bless you for the information, I'll stick with what I've got - Ezra. He appears to be a real humble fellow whereas Esdras seems to be too full of himself.
God bless.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy.
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