Acts 23:8

[Roy Monis]

Hi Roy,

Yes, Martha confessed her belief that Jesus was the Son of God, but did she truly understand what that meant?  Several verses later we read this:

John 11:39     Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days.

John 11:40      Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

The way I understand it is that at this point, Martha was no different than all of us when, at one time in the Babylonian system of churches, we all confessed Jesus as the Son of God, but after having our eyes opened by God through the teachings of Ray, we can look back and see clearly that we really had no true concept of what we were confessing. 

And even now, we are all still learning and growing to understand and live as much as possible those truths that we have received here at bibletruths.

Martha confessed her belief in Jesus as the Son of God, and I believe she was genuine in that response, but she had no understanding of what that truly meant.  Ray teaches that Jesus converted not one person during his whole fleshly ministry on this earth.  (page 4, How Hard is Getting Saved Transcription)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.msg29185.html#msg29185

Even Peter confessed Jesus as the Son of God in Matthew 16, but that didn't mean he understood at that time everything that that confession meant.

As far as John 20:22, the disciples could not have received the Holy Spirit at this point, otherwise there would be a contradiction by Jesus Himself when He says the following:

John 16:7       Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

There are some who believe that Jesus ascended to His Father after speaking with Mary at the tomb, and then was able to return to the disciples and breathe the Holy Spirit on them.  But this line of thought again contradicts the words of Jesus when he says to the apostles in Acts 1:

Acts 1:8      but ye shall receive power at the coming of the Holy Spirit upon you, and ye shall be witnesses to me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and unto the end of the earth.

That sounds like to me that the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them. 

Acts 2 continues by saying:

Acts 2:4     and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare.

John never records that they were filled with the Holy Spirit whe Jesus breathed on them.  It is only in Acts that it is recorded that all twelve disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit. 

The way I understand John 20:22 is that Jesus was prophesying about what was to come on the day of Pentecost.  By breathing on them, perhaps He was illustrating how the Holy Spirit would come.  We read in Acts 2:

Acts 2:2     And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Young's Literal Bible translates it this way:

Acts 2:2     and there came suddenly out of the heaven a sound as of a bearing violent breath, and it filled all the house where they were sitting

Of course, that's just a supposition on my part. 

But remember, Thomas wasn't even with the rest of the disciples when Jesus 'breathed on them.'  So either 1) Jesus breathed on him separately at some point that is not recorded, 2) Thomas had to spend the next 40 days among the other 11 as the odd man out until he received the Spirit at Pentecost, or 3) or like I suggested, Jesus was simply foretelling of an event to come that would resemble what He was doing then – that the breath of God would come upon them and at that time, they would begin the ministry that had been planned for them from the beginning.

Thoughts?

God bless,

Eric

Hi! Eric and Kath

Yes  my brother, I agree with Kath, I do now believe that you have nailed it (pardon the expression). I now think that Paul was instantly converted but not Martha at that moment, but later perhaps, because she would no doubt be one of those assembled in the upper room at Pentecost.

Thanks brother and thank you sister you have been a great help.   Yes, I have read Ray's email on the subject of eternal life (Eph.1:13,14), and this confirms it; "This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life." (1Jn.2:25). We have the promise (earnest) in us now, but we don't have eternal life, as such, yet. It is obvious the Pharisees only had the expectation of a resurrection to judgment, this applied even for Paul until of course he met his match.

To be perfectly honest, going by the verse I've just quoted, I believed that I had eternal life .(But..But) as Ray would say, I only learned the truth, of course, after I read Ray's explanation in that email. Frankly it did come as a b..i..g disappointment, but that's how it is, it doesn't pay to rub your hands together too soon like the Babylonians do, so you see I still carry traces of that beast within me. Go on, yell at Roy to get rid of it!

God bless both of you.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy