The Florida revival

[kweli]

Dennis, are you sure you're not called to be a psychologist/psychiatrist? Amen to that observation. As Ray likes to say about magic, you know it's a trick, they even show how they do the trick, but when they do the trick you get fooled anyway. I suppose that explains DECEIT in greater detail

[Roy Monis]

IMO it's all about emotions. I've walked out of many movies emotionally moved. But the movie did not happen to me.

Churches use music to set an emotional stage. They start out with lively music and slowly bring it down to slow, emotional music. Then they pass the hat.

Hi Dennis

Yes, music and slow rhythmic chanting can play tricks on the mind. I believe it's called auto-suggestion, stage hypnotists are famous for that. That is world famous Benny Hinns trick with his low music and his encouragement for the audience to slowly and softly chant, "Come Holy Spirit, Come Holy Spirit." over and over until they fell into a sort of trance. I believe the vulnerable members of the audience hypnotize themselves and fall prey to Benny's deception. He is a professional stage hypnotist and nothing else.

Uri Geller did some amazing things using the same tricks and made a lota, lota, lota,  lovely, lovely money 

God bless you.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK      "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." 1Jn.4:8

[roundbellygroove]

Wow!

What a reveling week this has been. How did I miss The Depth of Satan-Who is Antipas? in the Lake of Fire series? I have been reading Ray's teaching for over 4 years now and the reality of that section just hit me this week. I know if I had understood it 3yrs ago I would not have joined back at a church.  I have done my time in all types of religious establishments to realize that most of it is a bunch of crock. I even attend 2 semesters at a very reputable "bible college" and realized that its all setup. When I left that college over 10 years ago I swore by that horrible experience that I would never have anything to do with religion again, but here I am being duped. Pretty sneaking I must say... Satan used the very thing that is dear to me get me back into his control by luring me with my passion for music. For many years I have played with all kinds and types of bands both secular and christian. I was scared when I played in secular bands because I knew that I was using my talent to encourage sinners to sin more. Then I felt awkward playing in christian groups because it was too controlled. Everything had to be picture perfect depending on where or who you were playing for. I always felt that when praising God with your instrument that you should always be free to be yourself. I mean why act it out? God knows if you are sincere or not anyways.

So I got back into church by a musician friend whom had the same experiences that I had with the world & religion and invited me to attend a service. The first thing I notice was that the congregation was very friendly, you showed up as your are(which was good for me since I'm a tee-shirt & jean kind-of-guy),A very diverse crowd with people from all over the world represented,Tithing was not enforced or pressured but was an expression of worship or offering, I didn't hear any crazy rapture preaching and the Worship was just that... Worship.  No set number of songs or type of songs just free Worship. You never knew how long worship service would be. Sometimes 20min, sometimes the whole service could be taken up. In those instances the pastor would dismiss those that had to leave and if they wanted to leave an offering he would just instruct those to leave in the back as they went out. To me at that time I had never experienced a church environment like it. So needless to say I joined in as a Bass player then later as a Drummer.

It was a quote from Dennis Vogel that really struck a nerve.

IMO it's all about emotions. I've walked out of many movies emotionally moved. But the movie did not happen to me.

Churches use music to set an emotional stage. They start out with lively music and slowly bring it down to slow, emotional music. Then they pass the hat.

Then it hit me!!! Ive been hoodwinked!!! All this time I was wondered why I never could make real money in the music business when Satan can use me for free as long a I though I was doing if for the Lord. Ouch
Do you have any idea how bad that stings? Please understand that I am a Virtuoso(highest level of musical awareness on can posses) at my instruments.  I am literally a pied pipper!!! I know what notes & rhythms to play to invoke any type of emotion I want and I have been used for the past 2 1/2yrs as a puppet for Satan thinking I was doing it for God.

Anyways, again it has been a reveling week for me. Please keep me in prayer as the Lord directs me in a exit plan. This will not be easy since this has been the best church family I have ever encountered. These people have really watched out for me since I started attending. It will be difficult to explain why I will be leaving. Also I have completely lost the will to play again. I'm feeling like some cheap magician that uses smoke and mirrors to create illusions.

Thanks for the input Ya'll

roundbelly 

[winner08]

Hey roundbellygrove. I was just wandering why you left that church. I must of miss the reasons you stated. I mean for a church it sounded OK. You had your choice of music to play, the preachers didn't ask for money except for contributions guess that;s a from of asking for money though. also you mention the people were friendly. One question. what kind of doctrain did they teach? was it the usual man made stuff. (OF MAN) not God. Please, I mean no harm in asking these questions. It's just that It sounds like a church I left recently.

                             Darren

[chav]

Hi
I came to Christ (or so I thought) in 1972 . I came into the church partly through what was then known as the 'Jesus movement' during that time many thousands of young people both here in the UK and in the USA came into the church professing Christ.Some would have described that as some form of revival.
Now my question is , if as some suggest, revivals are really a deception or satanic in origin, then who was it that called me ,was it God or the devil ?
It's probably a ridiculous question , but it is a logical extension to some of the answers given on this thread.
cheers
Dave

[Roy Monis]

Hi
I came to Christ (or so I thought) in 1972 . I came into the church partly through what was then known as the 'Jesus movement' during that time many thousands of young people both here in the UK and in the USA came into the church professing Christ.Some would have described that as some form of revival.
Now my question is , if as some suggest, revivals are really a deception or satanic in origin, then who was it that called me ,was it God or the devil ?
It's probably a ridiculous question , but it is a logical extension to some of the answers given on this thread.
cheers
Dave

Hi! Dave

No I don't think that is a ridiculous question, I remember a similar thing happen when Billy Graham came to Manchester. Literally thousands of youngsters where called converted and brought to Jesus, one is presently a pastor in one of the local churches. He has no theological or Bible college qualifications but was appointed by his congregation to lead the church.

None the less he is a firm believer in tithing, trinity and hell. Some of his sermons are just over the top yet they put their full trust in him. A friend of ours was a member for a time, but was told that she could afford to give more as what she was giving was far below the stipulated 10%. How he knew how much she was paying and what her income was I don't know, perhaps he was inspired like Peter: "But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God. And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it." (Acts 5:1-5).   

I pleased to say that this friend didn't suffer the same fate of Ananias and Sapphira. Praise the Lord.

God bless you my brother and sister in our walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Dennis Vogel]

As Ray likes to say: "to come out of Babylon, you must first go into Babylon."

[roundbellygroove]

Winner08, 

I forgot to mention that the church I attend belongs to the A/G(Assembly of God)denomination. Even though this church operates differently from the majority of A/G churches. It is still rooted with unscriptual doctrine. If you want? You can google search it to find the main website and read what the core beliefs are. If you have been reading ray's teaching for awhile it wont take long to see what I have issues with.

I personally don't have a problem with the church or the preacher at all. The majority of the pastor's teaching are good well thought out doctrine. However the church is still underwritten by A/G doctrine...Which means Satan is still very influential because of the core believes that they behold. For the most part these people are good "Christians" but if word got out that one of their worship team members believed differently? It could get really ugly fast!!!  Having said that, I would like to leave as peaceful as possible. Allot of them are great friends of mine whom have taken care of me and my family in difficult times. The last thing I desire is to develop bitterness between us. Besides its not my job to "save" them. Only the Father can bring someone to the Light.

Anywho... I hope this answers some of you questions winner08.  You can pm with any further questions. I prefer to let this subject go for now. Its has been a rough but reveling week for me.

roundbelly

[Roy Monis]

As Ray likes to say: "to come out of Babylon, you must first go into Babylon."

Hi! Dennis

Brother why do you keep reminding me of that nightmare. I did to them what the penguin on your right did to his mate.

God bless you in your walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Dennis Vogel]

The majority of the pastor's teaching are good well thought out doctrine.

As you spend more time here you will discover that probably EVERYTHING the pastor teaches (of any consequence) is a lie. I'm not saying the pastor is bad or intentionally lying, he most likely does not realize his teachings are 180 degrees opposite from the truth.

To me it's a miracle how completely blind the church is. You would think they would have something right, but they have it ALL wrong. It is a miracle indeed.

But, never the less, Christ preached, is Christ preached.

Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Dennis

[ez2u]

well this is a whole lot to pray about I am a tongue speaking Christian but it is rare and I have all so at times prophesies the Word of the Lord  but very few times and I know the difference from going into a spiritual realm picking up anything in the spiritual realm and deliverying it and actually hearing  Jesus Christ speak through my voice.  That has been very few times in my life but it did happen!  No one in this forum can tell me different when  I saw people turn their hearts toward God in repentance of their sin.  I went into one of those Pentacostal churches  where people were running around like a chicken with their heads  cut off.  It was digusting to me and I never went back.  In my early twenties we went to a home meeting,it was banned by all the local churches,  made up of a few young coubles worship the Lord on a Friday night.  We sang sometimes almost all night into the wee hours of the morning  sing lifting our hands and our hearts praising God, talking about what God was doing in our lives, our troubles and praying.  It was real it was blessed not because we had some great revelation, nor did we not have our problems  but because each one of us had a love and desired to know and do His Will.  Was that a Church? I guess you mean the organized church.  Do you think that God does not speak through a person,  I believe He does probably every minute of the day, to someone else.  I have had people come up to me and tell me what came out of my mouth to them changed their lives  I didn't even remember them.  It wasn't me speaking it was the Holy Spirit speaking through me.  Knowledge does not save anyone and it never will.  Peole have been growing in Christ for centuries people that couldn't read nor write because they had a heart that wanted God more then themselves.  Prayer is so very wonderful.  Pray without ceasing.  No one can come unto the Father unless the HOLY Spirit draws them.  If we live by the Spirit let us WAlk by the Spirit. 
Mat 22:37  And Jesus said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding--
Mat 22:38  this is a first and great command;
Mat 22:39  and the second is like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself;
Mat 22:40  on these--the two commands--all the law and the prophets do hang.'
You can be the most anointed speaking walking Christ like person on this earth besides Jesus Christ ,  some pain ridden, fear living carnal   christian  is going to twist it around to serve the flesh.  Does that discount your walk in the Lord and make it evil?  I am speaking out because it is not truth to discount the working of the AHoly Spirit and I can witness to you that I can seen and witness the Holy Spirit speak through humans and that tongues are not all a muble  jumble mess.  But I would not go into those circus's they are calling Churches with people doing strange things for show and tell.  peggy

[psalmsinger]

Hey roundbelly!

I guess a revival is the carnal system's way of saying "I'm dead......let's play a little music, have an alter call, repeat the sinners prayer(again) pass the hat and presto chango everyone comes alive".  Revivals are for the "dead".  If you are in Christ you are alive and not in need of any hocus pocus!  Believe me, even if you have to go through a dry spell, the Lord will give you an acceptable outlet for your musical expertise that has His stamp of approval. The Lord always provides the best for His children, even if we don't see it at the time.  Keep praising our Almighty God!

Peggy,
I trust that you know when the Lord has been truly revealed in you   He works in mysterious ways (even through the babylonian church system) His wonders to make known.
I just distrust the system and the voo-doo it encourages.  Peace,

Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

Wow!

What a reveling week this has been. How did I miss The Depth of Satan-Who is Antipas? in the Lake of Fire series? I have been reading Ray's teaching for over 4 years now and the reality of that section just hit me this week. I know if I had understood it 3yrs ago I would not have joined back at a church.  I have done my time in all types of religious establishments to realize that most of it is a bunch of crock. I even attend 2 semesters at a very reputable "bible college" and realized that its all setup. When I left that college over 10 years ago I swore by that horrible experience that I would never have anything to do with religion again, but here I am being duped. Pretty sneaking I must say... Satan used the very thing that is dear to me get me back into his control by luring me with my passion for music. For many years I have played with all kinds and types of bands both secular and christian. I was scared when I played in secular bands because I knew that I was using my talent to encourage sinners to sin more. Then I felt awkward playing in christian groups because it was too controlled. Everything had to be picture perfect depending on where or who you were playing for. I always felt that when praising God with your instrument that you should always be free to be yourself. I mean why act it out? God knows if you are sincere or not anyways.

[Dennis Vogel]

I am a tongue speaking Christian

Peggy, speaking in tongues is gibberish at best and satanic at worst.

There are religions all over the world that work people into emotional frenzies or emotional moods of melancholy for reasons of power and/or wealth.


http://bible-truths.com/tongues.htm

If God has shown you the truth regarding languages in this paper, and you still REFUSE to give it up, then you have an 'idol of the heart,' and 'ye are YET carnal,' which means that you do NOT love God, neither are you subject to his spiritual law. You have reached the end of your spiritual growth, and if you don't repent and give this idol up, then what you have already attained WILL BE TAKEN FROM YOU.

[cjwood]

Hi Roundbelly,

The way I see this is that there are a lot of good, honest, sincere people in the church, I was in the church at one time    These people are the many called, they do not know God, indeed they are "enmity against God." (Rom 8:7)  True the chosen/Elect come out from them, but I would think they usually come out pretty quick after learning the truth.  So their is not a real element of truth there to speak of.
These people are striving for an spiritual experience that they believe will bring them closer to God... Satan knows this.  In order to work his deceit craftily he does use signs and wonders.

2Co 11:3  But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety (cunning, craftiness), so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
v. 10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Mar 13:22  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I feel these people in the church are having real experiences, but not from the Holy Spirit or they would be having their eyes opened to the truth. This is the plan of God for the church in this age, to be deceived.  I believe the vast majority are sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the less.

The parable are about the same thing the many/called and the few/chosen, the church is the many and the chosen are the few that come out.

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

2Co 6:17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

mercy, peace and love
Kati


i love the way you expressed the exact way i have been feeling lately regarding my momma whom i love with all my heart. i have had several different discussions with her regarding wonderful truths i have been shown in my spiritual understanding and things that are so so simple when you read them and the light of His Truth. things my momma can / could understand but is basically afraid to. afraid to let go of her comfortable fairy tale. the fairy tale of hell. your statement " i feel these people in the church are having real experiences, but not from the holy spirit or they would have their eyes opened to the truth. this is the plan of God for the church in this age, to be deceived. i believe the vast majority are sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the less.  this is where my momma is...sincerely ignorant, but deceived none the same.  i am sure many many of us have family members we feel the same about.  i mean, if you can't talk to your family about the wonderfully fabulous truths of the freedom from the hellfire and heaven only club lies of the church, who can you share them with...hmmm...wait a minute...i think Jesus had this same problem with His family...go figure...

[ez2u]

There is something going on there because a few years back an I live in this general area but not in this city.  A huge glass window was wash one day an the next day  this picture  like a water stain ( it was huge)  was on the glass.  It was not put there by visible hands  it looked like the Christ one way and like a woman ( some said  Mary another)  which for me  meant the completeness.  Male and female  people came from all over to see this as we did too.  many candles were left as a lot of Mexican people in in this area.  peggy

[psalmsinger]

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind."  Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?


Matt 12:38-39
38   Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39   But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)

Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

[Roy Monis]

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind."  Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?


Matt 12:38-39
38   Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39   But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)

Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

Hi! Barbara

I think I also remember reading somewhere something on these lines; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." (Matt.24:22-28). "Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (Isa.53:1).


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

[Triton]

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind."  Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?


Matt 12:38-39
38   Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39   But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)

Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

Hello Barbara,

It seems that the Florida revival might blow over to Taiwan, where I live and still very reluctantly attend church. I still go 'cause of my wife and the place she still finds herself spiritually. But yesterday morning, the pastor and his wife, out of nowhere, made public that the congregation should get themselves ready for the coming revival, which will be accompanied by signs and wonders.

While sitting and listening to them speaking I went through my Bible and found the same scripture you quoted above.

I would like to know from you, and others, what you make of this scripture? He gave a warning and then left. Right?
What do you think Jonas' sign entails?

Is this revival God's way of giving some over to Satan for their destruction?

[Roy Monis]

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign........blockin out the scenery, breakin my mind."  Now what was it that Jesus taught about seeking a "sign"?


Matt 12:38-39
38   Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39   But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(KJV)



Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

Hello Barbara,

It seems that the Florida revival might blow over to Taiwan, where I live and still very reluctantly attend church. I still go 'cause of my wife and the place she still finds herself spiritually. But yesterday morning, the pastor and his wife, out of nowhere, made public that the congregation should get themselves ready for the coming revival, which will be accompanied by signs and wonders.

While sitting and listening to them speaking I went through my Bible and found the same scripture you quoted above.

I would like to know from you, and others, what you make of this scripture? He gave a warning and then left. Right?
What do you think Jonas' sign entails?

Is this revival God's way of giving some over to Satan for their destruction?

Hi! Triton

You seem to be worried about this so-called revival and your pastor putting the fear of his hell into you all in that church. Trust God there is no such thing in the Scriptures so there ain't no revival, there is mention of an apostasy which he is a very big part of: "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction..." (2Thess.2:3).

It will probably blow into Taiwan as it will most likely blow in everywhere else, but it will also blow out just as fast. Expect signs and wonders that is bound to happen, we have been warned, its right there in your Bible as it is in mine: "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." (Matt.24:22-28). "Lord, who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?" (Isa.53:1).

Fear is a bad thing it is not of God. "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go." (Josh.1:9).


You have come out of their midst so why are you going to their church to listen to all their satanic rubbish, believe God? I can see no connection with the sign of Jonah and what he has been parroting about.

God bless you brother and sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK