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Author Topic: Heaven (a geological place)???  (Read 3270 times)

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winner08

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Heaven (a geological place)???
« on: May 22, 2008, 04:32:55 AM »

I understand that heaven is not a geological place. I was wonder why Jesus said so much about heaven. My Father IN heaven. or God's throne In heaven. ascended into heaven, reward in heavenor as it is in heaven and earth, every knee will bow down in heaven and in the earth, under the earth. Things like this. Is it a spiritual reference? Ray probably has some teachings on this subject. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I would like to read about this subject.



                                                   Thanks  Darren
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 03:37:59 PM by winner08 »
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winner08

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 02:27:15 AM »

Yes Darren, heaven is mention quit a bit in scripture, heaven is not a geological physical place. The heavens is in the air where the clouds are, above the clouds in space where the stars are and then of course there's the 3rd heaven where God dwells I believe Paul spoke of this. ( I could be wrong). :-\ Anyways thanks for those thought provoking ansewers. You really helped me alot.

                                        Thanks, Darren



p.s. your insights are always helpfull :D ;D ::) ::)
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carol v

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2008, 10:32:53 AM »

Darren,

Talking to yourself is the first sign of senility...or is it insanity...I don't remember because I've been doing it for years myself.  :o

Carol
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winner08

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2008, 11:58:58 AM »

I like to think of it as a great imagination. ;)

                                          Darren
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LittleBear

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2008, 01:12:07 PM »

Hey Darren,

The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, and it's in the midst of you. Sorry, I can't find the scriptures right now, but it's a lot closer than it being some planet in outer space somewhere. Ray has some good teaching on this, but I'm not good at finding things. I know someone will point you in the right direction though. Hmmm...if heaven is in our midst, does that mean we can partake of heaven's blessings now?

Ursula :)
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Stevernator

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2008, 08:53:42 PM »

Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
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kweli

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 12:24:28 PM »

Hello everybody

Do we really catch the weight of these verses?

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when the Pharisees had demanded of Him when the Kingdom of God should come, He answered them and said, "The Kingdom of God cometh not with outward show. [brings to attention outward show of prayer, outward show of religiosity (like wearing verses, i mean come on now), outward show of doing good deeds]
21 Neither shall they say, 'Lo, it is here!' or 'Lo, it is there!' For behold, the Kingdom of God is within you."

Okay, I know a lot has been mentioned about being/doing things inwardly. I also understand why. But the 100 year reign is inward as well? I may have missed something. Maybe I'm confusing the kingdom of God with the kingdom of heaven. Please help

All Glory to Him
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mharrell08

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2008, 12:53:00 PM »

Okay, I know a lot has been mentioned about being/doing things inwardly. I also understand why. But the 100 year reign is inward as well? I may have missed something. Maybe I'm confusing the kingdom of God with the kingdom of heaven. Please help

All Glory to Him



Hello Kweli,

I believe the kingdom of God and kingdom of Heavens are one in the same. This transcript from one of Ray's audios should help as well as the direct audio if you have the bandwidth to download. All throughout, Ray uses the 2 terms interchangeably.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html


Marques
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Kat

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2008, 02:17:27 PM »


Hi Kweli,

Quote
But the 100 year reign is inward as well? I may have missed something. Maybe I'm confusing the kingdom of God with the kingdom of heaven.

A very simplicity answer that I think may help, is the Kingdom is Jesus Christ and all that is His - the Elect.  Jesus Christ and the Father are One - God, therefore kingdom of God which is the way it is put in Scripture mostly, it is also referred to as;

kingdom of Christ and of God (Eph 5:5)
kingdom of their Father (Mat 13:43)
kingdom of His dear Son (Col 1:13)
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2Peter 1:11)

All these mean the same thing.

The kingdom of heaven is God's realm or domain.  The 1000 yrs reign will be when Jesus Christ brings the kingdom to this earth (the people of this world) to reign and rule, this will be judgment.

Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

You really do need to study 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom?' to get a full understanding of this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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kweli

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 06:44:38 AM »

Hello Kat and Marques

Thank you for elaborating on that point. I think I have to rephrase my question as it may have come out wrongly. I went through 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom' a couple of times already. I did a search for Luke 17 in both papers, just to see if I had really missed it. I couldnt find the verse in there. My question is, since we know that the 1000 year reign is not inward but it will be judgement time when the inhabitants of the world will be learning righteousness, what does Luke 17:21 mean? I was trying to make a distinction between the kingdoms to sort of make sense of this verse but I realize that's a bad move. The truth is, based on my study on the kingdom of heaven and the parables and the judgement and the reign, this verse sort of throws me off a bit.

I hope I was clearer with my question today

All Glory To Him   
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mharrell08

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 09:50:23 AM »

Hello Kat and Marques

Thank you for elaborating on that point. I think I have to rephrase my question as it may have come out wrongly. I went through 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom' a couple of times already. I did a search for Luke 17 in both papers, just to see if I had really missed it. I couldnt find the verse in there. My question is, since we know that the 1000 year reign is not inward but it will be judgement time when the inhabitants of the world will be learning righteousness, what does Luke 17:21 mean? I was trying to make a distinction between the kingdoms to sort of make sense of this verse but I realize that's a bad move. The truth is, based on my study on the kingdom of heaven and the parables and the judgement and the reign, this verse sort of throws me off a bit.

I hope I was clearer with my question today

All Glory To Him   


I think I know where you're coming from, but the answer is over my head. You might want to email Ray or PM the mods directly as I don't think they all check this board everyday. One should be able to help.


Marques
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Kat

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 12:38:32 PM »


Hi Kweli,

kingdom - a realm or region in which something or someone is dominant.  (Merriam-Webster)
kingdom - The inhabitants or population subject to a king. (Webster)

Well in Luke 17:21 where it says "the Kingdom of God is within you."  I believe "the Kingdom of God" is Jesus Christ.  The Elect, subjects of His domain, are being added to the kingdom through the Holy Spirit living in them.  Just as Christ and the Father are 'one,' the Elect are being made into that same image, becoming 'one' with them, forming the kingdom.

1Co 3:16  Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Col 1:27  To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

So right now "the Kingdom of God is at hand" because God is preparing His Elect, those few who receive the Holy Spirit - kingdom now.

All the parables refer to this few being chosen now to be prepared to reign with Christ.

Mar 4:26  And He said, "The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed on the ground,

This parable is speaking of the Elect, it shows of those who receive the Truth, so few bear fruit, but this is the kingdom. 

Mat 13:31  Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field,
v. 32  which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

This parable shows how the kingdom starts tiny, with the first converts, the Apostles.  But Christ is bringing more into His kingdom everytime He opens the eyes of one of His Elect.

So the Kingdom is Christ and the Elect.  Right now the Kingdom is within the Elect, because it is not manifested to the world yet.

John 14:22  Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?"
v. 23  Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

When He comes to rule and reign, the Elect will be with Him and His Kingdom will be revealed and reign over the world.

1Tim 6:13  I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
v. 14  that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
v. 15  which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
v. 16  who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Rev 1:5  and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
v. 6  and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
v. 7  Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

This is how I understand this, I hope this is of some help.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Akira329

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 02:06:54 AM »

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Is this a proclamation of when he comes  everyone will recognize him or is it during his reign that they will come to recognize him????
Antaiwan
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Kat

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2008, 02:38:28 PM »



Hi Antaiwan,

Rev 1:7  Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail G2875 because of Him. Even so, Amen.

G2875 koptō - specifically to beat the breast in grief: cut down, lament, mourn, (be-) wail.

Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
v. 15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
v. 16  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
v. 17  For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The people seem to be in great distress, because Christ has returned and so they should be, "For the great day of His wrath is come."  There will be a great show of His power when He returns and everyone will see it.

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

When they are standing before GOD, do you think they are going to wonder who He is? 

Rev 16:18  And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

These things in Revelations are symbolic, but never the less there is without question going to be some spectacular physical manifestations when Christ appears.  I believe that all the people on the earth will know exactly who He is.  There just will simply be no doubt, no matter who you worshipped or what you believed in your life, there will be no mistaking that this is the God of the universe.  And I think He will make it quite clear why He is here, people may want to get away, but there will be no where to escape to.

2Tim 4:1  I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

1Peter 4:5  They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

Joe 3:14  Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
v. 15  The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
v. 16  The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
v. 17  So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Martinez

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Re: Heaven (a geological place)???
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2008, 07:44:14 PM »

This is Thy Kingdom come, when God will be all in all.

When everything that creeps upon the earth (that is in us) has been submitted to Christ, then God will have total dominion.

That's what the Kingdom of God is, total obedience from all!
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