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Author Topic: Pastor Tom  (Read 3051 times)

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Craig

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Pastor Tom
« on: May 13, 2006, 10:46:49 AM »

Hi Ray,
You have given me some very interesting insight into the scriptures! I have always questioned in my mind some of the Christian teachings and you have shed some new light on this, and I thank you, and may God Bless You!

Ray here is some feedback from my Pastor. I would like for you to reply when you get time:


Dear Reader:

I have answered all of these unscriptural arguements in my paper: "IS EVERLASTING SCRIPTURAL?" found on my bible-truths.com home page. However, I will make a few comments to your postor's false assertions:


Note that Jesus in Mat 25:46 uses AIONIAN KOLASION ( eternal ruin) and AIONIAN ZOENE ( eternal life). So if one is in any sense TEMPORARY or "AGE LONG" w/o being forever, then so is eternal life.


COMMENT:  It is true that Matt. 25:46 uses "aionian kolasion" and "aionian Zoene," but to state that aionian kolasion means "eternal ruin" is totaly unwarranted, and neither does aionian zoene mean "eternal life," but rather "eonian [or age-abiding] life  The Greek word "kolasis" [Strong's #2851] translated "punishment" is from the Greek word "Kolazo" [Strong's #2849], and it mean: "to cut off, to prune."  The wicked are not tortured for eternity but are rather judged which involves setting wrongs, right. They are "prune" for this purpose. We prune trees in anticipation of their producing FRUIT, not for the purpose of destroying the tree.  This judgment/pruning/chastening of the wicked is "aionian/eonian/age-abiding."  Likewise the life that is promised the righteous is "aionian/eonian/age-abiding.  The promise for the righteous chosen elect of God is to rule and reign with Christ for the EONS, not for all eternity. This is clearly prov ed in I Cor. 15:24-26 where Jesus rules only "until" He puts all enemies under His feet and then delivers up the Kingdom to His Father. Jesus ceases to reign after He turns the Kingdom over to His Father. Jesus Himself then becomes subject to His Father as does all the rest of humanity (Verse 28). After death is abolished it is clear that we don't die. How can anyone die when death is abolished. Besides we have been given "immortality," not "eternal life."  Nowhere in Scripture is the word "eternal" justified by either the Greek or the Hebrew.


Paul uses AIONIOS of GOD in Rom 16:26. Is this to say: God is for a "duration"? In Heb 9:14 speaking of the Holy Spirit "indefinitely long"


COMMENT:  This is just a matter of not understanding at all the fact that God is the Creator of the "aions."  Aions have absolutely nothing to do with eternity. I Cor. 2:7 speaks of "BEFORE the aions." Is there a "BEFORE eternity?" Heb. 1:2 states that "God made the aions."  Did God "make the ETERNITIES?"  Col. 1:26 speaks of things "hid from the aions."  Gal. 1:4 calls this present span of history "this PRESENT wicked eon." Luke 18:30 speaks of "the NEXT eon." Is there another "eternity" coming?  Eph. 2:7 speaks of "FUTURE EONS." Eons coming after this eon, and they are coming in multiples.  Eph. 3:21 contrasts the different eons with one another.  And I Cor. 10:11 speaks of "the CONSUMMATIONS of the EONS"--the ENDS of the EONS.  Is there coming plural ends to plural eternities?

God created the aions. God has purposed His creation during these aions. Who then is "the God" of this purpose and plan taking place during these aions? Why it is GOD, of course. That makes God the "aionios GOD."  This is not a statement of how long God lives. What total nonsense is that?  All that God has created and all that God has given us knowledge of, is contained in the aions. We are told of NOTHING further than what happens during these aions.  There is only one or two allusions to anything beyond the aions:  "Of the increase of His government [Kingship] there shall be NO END."  There are very few such statements in Scripture.

 
The word AIDIOS appears only twice, in Rom 1:20, Jude 6 and ALL lexicons (Greek Dictionaries) call it a synonym for AIONIOS.


COMMENT:  I am not sure that "ALL lecions" say aidios is synonymous with aionios.  "aidion = UN-PERCEIVED, IMPERCEPTIBLE: Rom. 1:20 & Jude 6" (Concordant Greek-English Keyword Concordance, page 154).  Read Rom. 1:20: "For the INVISISLBE things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly SEEN [invisible things can be seen? Yes], being understoodby the things that are MADE, EVEN HIS IMPERCEPTIBLE ['invisible'--SAME THOUGHT] and Godhead [Divinity"..." Actually a little  elementary logic coupled with the context will clearly show any rational mind that the chains or bonds spoken of in this verse cannot possibly be "eternal" as the context clearly shows that these chains or bons  are only, "...UNTO the judgment of the great day [which 'great day' is a designated "aionion" judgment of Jesus Christ (Acts 17:39--a period of lesser and greater chastisement, but a day nonetheless of "ASASURANCE" for all man kind because Jesus has paid the penalty for all sin).


In Mat 25, why does Jesus use AIONIOS? Because he began his sermon in Mat 24:4 by referring to Daniel the prophet (Mat 24:15) as a beginning point for end times and judgement. Daniel 12:1,2 has the same intent as Jesus's words in Mat 25:46. Daniel (in the LXX, Seph or Greek bible) translates the Hebrew of Daniel 12:2 "AIONION ZOENE" and "AIONIAN AISKUNENE" So if one is merely indefinitely long, so is the other.


COMMENT: I have already explained above the reign of Christ and the period of judgment, all of which are aions, and it is aionion life during these aions that the elect are promised. After the consummations of all aions, we continue to live because death has been abolished before Christ stops reigning and because all in the resurrection to life are giveen "incorruption and immortality--DEATH=LESS=NESS."


When speaking of BOTH eternal life AND eternal ruin, the New Testament (WITHOUT EXCEPTION) uses AIONIOS. The writers assumptions and statements appear to be deliberately misleading. I would be very careful of using anything he writes as authoritive!!


COMMENT:  You are out of line, Pastor Tom, when you suggest that I am "deliberately misleading." I assure you that I have hundreds of Scriptures to support what I teach, where as in the above argument, YOU HAVE NONE.  It is you, Tom, who needs to be careful.  There was no word in ANY literature in ANY language on earth before the second century A.D that had a single word that carried the meaning of "endless time." And that is an historical and etymological fact, Tom. Read my paper on "EVERLASTING" is unscriptural.

God be with you,

Ray

Pastor Tom
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