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Author Topic: Abels offering  (Read 3318 times)

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ez2u

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Abels offering
« on: May 27, 2008, 10:04:07 PM »

I ra
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 09:33:46 PM by ez2u »
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psalmsinger

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 11:11:44 PM »

Hello Peggy,
I hadn't thought of it like that:)  I thought Abel's offering was one of the Spirit and Cain's was an offering of the carnal flesh nature.

Barbara
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Stevernator

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 02:25:56 AM »

Excellent insight Peggy. That reminded me of what I read from http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

Here are just two examples:  The Passover in ancient Israel was a type of its true fulfillment to come in our Lord's crucifixion, "Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened [but now speaking spiritually].  For even Christ our PASSOVER [Lamb] is sacrificed [crucified] for us " (I Cor. 5:7).  And James 1:18 clearly demonstrates the foreshadowing of the firstfruits harvest by saying:  "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a KIND of firstfruits [of the Spring Harvest] of His creatures [not farm products]."  It is also important to note that whenever the word "first" is used, it always suggests more to follow -- there is never a Spring harvest without a following Fall harvest. We will now consider three of the Old Testament types that center on the harvest seasons.

In ancient Israel there were three times in the year when all men were to appear before God:

THE WAVE SHEAF (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover): "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf OF the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest ... And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the FIRST year for a burnt offering unto the Lord" (Lev. 23:10-12).
 
COMMENT: This wave sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits is a type of our Lord Who was the perfect Lamb without blemish offered in the Spring on Passover. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUIT of them that sleep" (I Cor. 15:20). Jesus is not the entire firstfruits but rather "the firstfruit OF them that sleep." He is the firstfruit OF the firstfruit or more precisely the "wave sheaf OF the firstfruits." Firstfruit is a term that pertains to agriculture and harvesting. It was never a theological term until introduced into the New Testament with regards to a small number who would be saved prior to a much larger number to be saved later.


I am also reminded of Gen 22.
2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."

As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?"
      "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied.
      "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"

 8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.

12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."


It is really neat to see the foreshadowings of Christ in the Old Testament.

Steve
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Abels offering
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 08:56:51 AM »

I ran across this today and thought to share it  peggy

Gen 4:4  and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones; and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present,

Isa 53:7  He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a ewe before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.

what i see is Abels' offering was of the submissive nature or of the female nature and i've often thought that Jesus complete submission to the Father on this earth was this female action.  peggy

Hi Peggy,

I believe your observation on the "female firstlings" does represent a female work or sacrifice but not representing Christ but the Bride of Christ, of those who follow the Lamb "whithsoever He goest."


Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Remember Paul's admonishment to any who would be a follower of Christ?

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We have examples of certain sacrifices which require a male and others a female (others can be either/or), there are too many to list but here are a couple that very specific;
 
Lev 1:3  If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
 
Lev 1:10  And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.

Here is an interesting verse that might help us in understanding the significance of some of the different sacrifice requirements and their symbolic meaning;

Oba 1:21  And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

Who might these "saviors" be?
 
Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

As Ray points out numerous times the elect, the chosen, the bride (one and the same) have a part in the salvation of all the rest of humanity!

Peace,

Joe



 
 
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 01:55:19 PM »

abels offereing reflected the salvation of Christ and by his hands alone heavenly minded.

cain was the ""elder brother"" he was a ground tiller, carnal minded earthly minded and his sacrifice was of his own hands and work.


enmity with God.


chuckt
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sonofone

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 04:41:15 PM »

I'm not as versed in Ray's teachings as you guys are but something Ray said concerning Adam seems to indirectly illustrate Peggy's observation.

Ray speaks of Adam's rib being the female part of him which was removed from him,which God in turn made Eve with. If I have the gist of Ray's statement right here,I can see Peggy's point in an indirect way.The point being the dual nature of Adam,if Adam possessed within him the male and female,then perhaps Jesus illustrated by way of example how a man can be submissive,IE.. taking on a female role in regards to God.

We are the bride of Christ although physically speaking,we are both male and females,yet in spiritual terms we are like Jesus while here on earth carrying out the female role so to speak.Jesus prayed that God would make us one with him even as he was one with God.

We know that marriage joins two separate bodies together and declares them one.We are married to God,wherein he is the Husband and we are the bride,together we are one,just as Jesus prayed we would be.

So I can see where Jesus would have given us a living example of how this looks and is carried out in the flesh as well as in the spirit.
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 07:07:52 PM »

Hi Sonofone,

Interesting points to be sure but I have to ask where is the chapter and verse for this supposition? Is obedience to One greater in authority and power strictly a female attribute? When a man obeys his boss at work, or secular law, or his flesh and blood father does that constitute a female work?

We read that Christ is the Son of God, not the Bride of God nor the Daughter of God. Without human reasoning taking precedence where is the scriptural authority for this idea? Because Eve came out of Adam means that every subsequent human being is now female?

Christ fulfilled OT/Mosaic Law, the roles of male and female are clearly defined in both the Old and New Testament, without getting into a line by line itemizing of these laws and roles perhaps some scriptural witnesses can be provided that proclaim Christ's ministry was a feminine work.

Peace,

Joe

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sonofone

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 09:01:44 PM »

Hi Sonofone,

Interesting points to be sure but I have to ask where is the chapter and verse for this supposition? Is obedience to One greater in authority and power strictly a female attribute? When a man obeys his boss at work, or secular law, or his flesh and blood father does that constitute a female work?

We read that Christ is the Son of God, not the Bride of God nor the Daughter of God. Without human reasoning taking precedence where is the scriptural authority for this idea? Because Eve came out of Adam means that every subsequent human being is now female?

Christ fulfilled OT/Mosaic Law, the roles of male and female are clearly defined in both the Old and New Testament, without getting into a line by line itemizing of these laws and roles perhaps some scriptural witnesses can be provided that proclaim Christ's ministry was a feminine work.

Peace,

Joe


Hey Joe my apologies if I overstepped my bounds.Perhaps I completely misapplied what Ray intended to convey by the example I cited.In the end if I have done this by stretching what he said to mean something he did not intend,then I apologize to him,you and all those who witnessed me doing so.

Peace,Steve
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mharrell08

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Re: Abels offering
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 10:25:55 PM »

I ran across this today and thought to share it  peggy

Gen 4:4  and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones; and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present,

Isa 53:7  He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a ewe before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.

what i see is Abels' offering was of the submissive nature or of the female nature and i've often thought that Jesus complete submission to the Father on this earth was this female action.  peggy


Hello Peggy,

I am having a hard time understanding the spiritual match to these 2 verses. Like Joe said, is obedience and/or submission a female attribute only? As a wife is to be submissive to her husband, he in turn is to be submissive to the Lord.

Also, your comment: "In this world there are many abuses woman and  girl children are face with each and every few minutes   Tragic ones because of this religious doctrine that isn't just in Christianity but also every major pagan religion on the face of this earth  and I believe that this hersey doctrine is a very good strong hold of the flesh not to submit to the workings of the Lord Jesus Christ." Can you explain in more detail your point on 'this religious doctrine' & 'this heresey doctrine'?

I think Sonofone showed great humility and wisdom when stated "stretching what Ray taught" about these comments and apologizing. I don't want to say that's what you're doing with these verses but maybe something to seek Him about.

Marques
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Abels offering
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2008, 08:17:08 AM »

I ran across this today and thought to share it  peggy

Gen 4:4  and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones; and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present,

Isa 53:7  He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a ewe before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.

what i see is Abels' offering was of the submissive nature or of the female nature and i've often thought that Jesus complete submission to the Father on this earth was this female action.  peggy

Hi! Peggy

Like Marques may I also ask where you get this heresy doctrine from? What Bible are you quoting from? I have tried to find a reference to "female firstlings" but my Bible (NASV) does not say any such thing, this is what it says; "Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering;" (Gen.4:4). No mention of female there. Maybe I've got the wrong Bible, if so put me on to the correct one please.

I think you should read your Scriptures more carefully and not add to what is already there, don't you?


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     



Hello Peggy,

I am having a hard time understanding the spiritual match to these 2 verses. Like Joe said, is obedience and/or submission a female attribute only? As a wife is to be submissive to her husband, he in turn is to be submissive to the Lord.

Also, your comment: "In this world there are many abuses woman and  girl children are face with each and every few minutes   Tragic ones because of this religious doctrine that isn't just in Christianity but also every major pagan religion on the face of this earth  and I believe that this hersey doctrine is a very good strong hold of the flesh not to submit to the workings of the Lord Jesus Christ." Can you explain in more detail your point on 'this religious doctrine' & 'this heresey doctrine'?

I think Sonofone showed great humility and wisdom when stated "stretching what Ray taught" about these comments and apologizing. I don't want to say that's what you're doing with these verses but maybe something to seek Him about.

Marques
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