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Author Topic: Overcomers  (Read 2210 times)

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EKnight

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Overcomers
« on: June 02, 2008, 01:45:02 AM »

I am re-reading lake of fire part 8 and just wondered who are the "overcomers" or "conquerors"?

Eileen
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Stevernator

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 01:50:52 AM »

The elect?
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mharrell08

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 03:06:20 AM »

The elect?


Steven nailed it right on the head: The Elect aka The Chosen & Faithful aka 'he who overcomes' ; etc.  ;)
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Kat

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 11:27:13 AM »


Hi Eileen,

I find it is always helpful to review and reread  :)  Here is an excerpt from part 8 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?' 

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -------

TO HIM THAT OVERCOMES…

"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of LIFE…" (Rev. 2:7).

That is the beginning of real spiritual life. If we continue in this new spiritual life, we will not be hurt by the "second death" which is the "the lake of fire."

"He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11).

Now we are safe, right? We can now rest on our laurels, right? Wrong.

"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the hidden manna" (Rev. 2:17).

We can’t grow spiritually unless we eat SPIRITUAL FOOD. When we eat of Christ’s spiritual body, we grow spiritually; when we stop eating spiritual food we spiritually starve and spiritually die. If we eat spiritual food, we grow, we mature, we are "continuing in Christ’s word" and Christ word is spirit and therefore spiritual food.

What is our next reward if we "continue" overcoming?

"…and will give him a white stone and a in the stone a new name" (Ver. 17)

Now we learned that this stone is really a pebble which is a symbol for a ballot, which acquits us of guilt and justifies us, allowing for our admission or entrance into the Kingdom, signed and signified by Jesus Himself. If we continue to overcome, this white signed, ballot stone of entrance into the Kingdom is waiting for us with OUR NAME on it. Remember "as Jesus is, SO ARE WE…" His name is OUR name. If we continue to overcome, we will be given another great reward.

"And he that overcomes and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Ver. 26).

Say, did you notice that most important phrase, "keeps my works UNTO THE END?" Do you suppose there was a purpose for adding those words at this place in the rewards? You know there was. We must "keep on, keeping on." We cannot look back. We cannot fail to continue in Christ’s words and works. We must take up our cross. We must suffer persecution. We must "fight the good fight." We must "keep the faith." We must "pray without ceasing." And we must make it to the end,

"And you shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endures TO THE END SHALL BE SAVED" (Matt. 10:22).

THEN we will be qualified to have "power over the nations." But reigning requires that we be RIGHTEOUS. We must reign the nations with spiritual power, not with military might. Our motives and our love must be PURE.

"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment" (Rev. 3:5).

The "white raiment" is the same "clean white, fine linen" of Rev. 19:8, "for fine linen is the righteousness of the saints" (Ver. 08). When we attain to this degree of overcoming, God makes an absolute promise to us:

"I will NOT blot out his name out of the book of life" (Ver. 5).

Just how high do the rewards of Jesus to the overcomer go?

"Him that overcomes will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD" (Ver. 12).

A pillar is a main support in a temple. It speaks of a position of GREAT DISTINGUISHED RESPONSIBILITY at the Spiritual Headquarters of the entirety of the universe in Mt. Zion. But if He is going to give us ALL THAT HE HAS, He expects us to do as He DID and become what He IS.

"To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me on My throne, EVEN AS I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne" (Ver. 21).

We are to overcome "even as" Jesus Christ conquered and overcame. What was it that Jesus Christ "overcame?" John 16:33,

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but BE OF GOOD CHEER; I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD!"

Jesus Christ overcame EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE WORLD! And here is God’s command to the believer who would become an overcomer and conqueror in Christ Jesus:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world [which MUST be overcome and conquered!]" (I John 2:15-16).

We are to also "overcome the world" just as Jesus did. Not by ourselves, but by Jesus "Christ IN us, the hope of GLORY." Christ lives His life IN the believer, and in the believer Christ will, "overcome the world," over and over again in each new believer. And then one day, Jesus Christ will say to YOU, "Sit with Me on My throne—We are going to save the Universe together."

We already read in Romans 8 that the whole creation is groaning for the manifestation of Sons and Daughters (saviours) to free this world from its vanity and corruption.

And so, there is ONE church, and all overcomers from that church receive ONE reward, the SAME reward, and that reward is CHRIST and all that His many symbols and names represent, all that He IS ("as He is, so are WE in the world"), and in the Kingdom of God as well. These are the highest and most glorious honors ever to be bestowed upon a man or woman of the human race!

"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches."
-------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 05:28:32 PM by Kat »
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EKnight

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 04:13:42 PM »

I'm still a bit confused. Does the "elect, overcomers or conquers" = faithful or trying your best to be faithful.  I just don't feel I could ever be one of the "elect" I'm a sinner and always will be no matter how hard I try.  So, are the elect only the ones who God has chosen to be the elect?  Are the elect also those who will be judging with Christ?  There is no way I would ever be worthy of judging anyone! Being spiritual is like being a recovering addict, I fall off the wagon and then come back. I know it's a process but I highly doubt I will escape the lake of fire.  But on the other hand, I am not Hitler either.  Sometimes Ray will say "a ten year old can understand this" and I'm thinking "huh?'  And I feel stupid even though I am not.  Ugh.

Eileen
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Kat

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 06:53:15 PM »


Hi Eileen,

Actually it is not a question of you "trying your best to be faithful" or "being worthy," it is Christ through the Holy Spirit living in you and preparing you that you are qualified.  We do not choose Him, He chose us from the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4).  If you are of the Elect (which we can not be absolutely sure of, because as long as we are in the flesh it is possible that we could fall away, as Heb.6:6 indicates) you will overcome and be prepared and rule with Christ.  Those ruling and reiging with Christ do not do so on their own strength, but by the Spirit, as they will be one with God.

Joh 17:11  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given Me, that they may be one, as We are.

Here is an email that might help a little bit.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2059.0.html ------

Dear Kelly:
Those whom God has foreordained to be the elect will always be the elect. The chosen elect cannot be lost.  But you and I do not know exactly who is and who isn't an elect. Only God's knows those who are His, and therefore, we can never let down our guard, because we might only think that we are elect.  I have seen and witnessed this with my own eyes where those who appeared to be elect, turned and now blaspheme the name of the Saviour they claimed to worship a short while back.
Sorry, don't know of any books that you can read on this subject.

God be with you,
Ray

« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 02:22:25 PM by Kat »
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Robin

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 07:04:05 PM »

Hi Eileen,

None of us know if we are chosen to be the elect. None of know if we will endure to the end. We all have the assurance of our salvation. That's a wonderful truth in itself. Lake of fire or no lake of fire.

I did not start learning truth until I was close to 40 years old. God used the time before that to prepare me to receive that truth and prepare me to have idols ground to powder through the most severe trials. If he had not prepared me I surely would have died through that process. I witnessed miracles in my life when I had given up all hope. It's absolutely amazing what God can do in a few years. If I hadn't experienced it myself I would have never thought it possible. I have such a long way to go, but I press on knowing that God has a sure plan and his plan is not in my hands. He is in control of all of it.

Mark 10
26And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Psalm 51:5-7
    5Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
         And in sin my mother conceived me.
    6Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
         And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
    7Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
         Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Ray's paper on Paul really helped me.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html


THE CALL OF PAUL

When Jesus desired to ask the worst sinner who had ever lived (that would be Paul):

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF," I Tim. 1:15)

To volunteer to teach the gospel to the Gentiles, He merely shined a bright light in Paul’s face to get his attention. Here are just a few revealed events in the life of Saul before God turned him into PAUL:

"Now Saul [Paul], yet breathing out THREATENINGS and SLAUGHTER against the disciples of the Lord. . ." (Acts 9:1):

"And I [Paul] persecuted this way unto THE DEATH, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women" (Acts 22:4).

"And I PUNISHED them OFT in EVERY synagogue, and compelling them To BLASPHEME; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them unto strange cities" (Acts 26:11).

"For I am the LEAST of the apostles, that am not meant to be called an apostle because I PERSECUTED the church of God" (I Cor. 15:9).

"For ye have heard of my conversation [behavior] in time past in the Jews religion, how that BEYOND MEASURE I persecuted the church of God, and WASTED it" (Gal. 1:13).

Most people believe that when Paul said he was the "chief of sinners" he was just blowing hot air--trying to play super humble or something. That he was so spiritual that he equated persecution of the church with being the grossest sin of all time. Not so. God’s Holy Spirit did not inspire Paul to "blow hot air" to make himself look artificially humble! Paul (Saul before his conversion) really was THE WORST SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD! (Including Hitler!)

There is a very important reason for understanding how gross a sinner Paul really was. There is a paramount reason why you will NEVER be able to out-sin Paul. NO ONE has ever been able to out-sin Paul. Men like Hitler and Hussein may even come close, but no one will ever hold that infamous distinction of being the "chief, preeminent, foremost sinner of all time" but the apostle Paul. Jesus Christ had to fill that position two thousand years ago for our understanding of upon whom the ends of the ages are come! Here’s the proof:

The phrase "beyond measure" in the KJV (Gal. 1:13) is translated from the Greek word hyperbole and has two primary usages:

"TRANSCENDENT" as found in Scriptures such as II Cor. 4:17

"For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, works for us a far more EXCEEDING AND ETERNAL [eonian] WEIGHT of glory."

The Greek translated "exceeding" is huperbole, and means TRANSCENDENT. Transcendent describes something that is highest, incomparable, consummate, matchless, preeminent, sublime, perfect, unequaled, unparalleled, and unrivaled! In other words the highest possible degree. Nothing is higher than that which is huperbole -- TRANSCENDENT!

"INORDINATE" as we read in Gal. 1:13,

"For you hear of my behavior once, in Judaism, that I INORDINATELY persecuted the ecclesia [church] of God and ravaged it." (Concordant Literal New Testament).

Inordinate describes something that is excessive, exorbitant, extravagant, unreasonable, and too much. Now here’s the kicker: "Inordinately" is translated from the SAME GREEK WORD huperbole which is also translated "transcendently"! (For more details on this see my paper entitled Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh Identified).

Here then is the Biblical truth of this matter. To the degree that "transcendently" describes the HEIGHT of God’s goodness and glory, so likewise does the word "inordinately" describe the HEIGHT of evil that Paul perpetrated on the Church of God. God’s transcendent (huperbole) goodness and glory are UNPARALLELED! Likewise, Paul’s inordinate (huperbole) slaughter (murders) and threatenings are also, UNPARALLELED! God’s Word does not say in vain that Paul was the CHIEF, FOREMOST, PREEMINENT (very, very WORST) of ALL SINNERS WHO HAVE EVER LIVED! He really WAS.

Now then, what do we read next after all these "threatenings and slaughter?"

"And as he [Saul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth ... And he TREMBLING AND ASTONISHED, said, ‘LORD, WHAT WILL YOU HAVE ME TO DO?" (Acts 9:3-6).

By all Scriptural indications, it probably took no longer than 30 seconds before Paul was fully committed to His New Lord. Do you reckon Jesus could ever do such a thing again? Or, was this incident a mere fluke? Don’t you fancy that Jesus could possibly convert one of the lesser sinners of the world (say Ted Bundy) in maybe 29 seconds? Or 28 seconds? Then why do you suppose that the High Priests of Christendom are teaching the world that there are billions and billions of LESSER sinners that Jesus CANNOT convert in 29 seconds or 29 QUADRILLION CENTURIES?

I did not use up a couple of pages here just to tell an interesting story from the Bible. It is more than just an interesting story, it is an amazing and marvelous story, and it portends profound hope for a lost and sinning world. Why does Paul tell us that he was the chief of ALL SINNERS? Why did our Lord choose this worst of sinners to be His apostle at this particular time in history? Why didn’t He choose a mediocre sinner like James or John to be His apostle to the Gentiles? Why did it have to be THE WORLD’S WORST SINNER? What did our Lord prove by using the world’s worst sinner that He couldn’t have done by using a lesser sinner? MUCH!

I have heard people say already that "God won’t save me; I have committed too many horrible sins for God to ever save me!" And I have heard and had people personally tell me that God will never save men like Ted Bundy or Adolph Hitler because their sins were so evil and so many. Oh, how we humans love to put limitations on an INFINITE GOD! Here’s the answer as to why God needed to chose the world’s WORST SINNER to be the apostle to the rest of the world:

"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting" (I Tim. 1:16).

The King James really does not do justice to this verse at all. Most have read right over this verse and never saw the profound, universal, all-embracing teaching in this verse. Let me quote it from the Concordant Version:

"But therefore was I shown mercy, that in me, THE FOREMOST [the worst sinner ever] Jesus Christ should be DISPLAYING [publicly] ALL HIS PATIENCE [yes God has ‘patience’ with even the worst of sinners], FOR A PATTERN, of those who are about to be believing on Him for life eonian"

Jesus Christ chose Paul, the WORST, CHIEF, FOREMOST, PREEMINENT SINNER THAT EVER LIVED (huperbole), to be put on PUBLIC DISPLAY for the whole world to see Jesus Christ demonstrating ALL HIS PATIENCE, for a "PATTERN" that will be repeated over, and over, and over again billions and billions of times for all those that Christ will likewise bring to repentance at any second He so desires!!!

Here’s the lesson: If Jesus Christ can bring to repentance, and convert, and save the WORLD’S WORST SINNER THAT HAS EVER LIVED in about 30 seconds, then that drunken cussing uncle of yours (the one you believe is going to hell for all eternity), is NO MATCH FOR THE CONVERTING POWER OF JESUS CHRIST! And ALL OF THE LESSER SINNERS of the world also are no match for the converting, saving power of Jesus Christ. Once the Giant of all sinners has been conquered, converting the sinning MIDGETS will be an easy task!

Has no one ever considered what would happen if God were to strike down Hitler with a BLINDING LIGHT FROM HEAVEN? Do you really think he would shake his fist toward heaven in total human defiance? Well, if you do, you think as a fool! Paul despised the Church of the Loving God. He hated it with evey fiber of his being. He went to great length and personal hardship to seek out and TORTURE the Saints of God. But when God struck him down with a blinding light from heaven, Paul "trembled" (Greek, tremo, dreadful and terrifying FEAR), and was "astonished" (Greek: thambeo, to stupefy, astound, amaze, astonish), and melted like jelly in the noonday SUN!

And some would suppose that Hitler or any LESSER sinner would do otherwise? Well, God didn’t strike down Hitler with a blinding light from heaven, but guess what? HE WILL YET DO IT! And when He does, Hitler will sob like a babbling idiot! He will violently shake and tremble in UTTER DESPAIR AND TERROR, and he will REPENT, make no mistake about it! OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE! God has ways to MAKE carnal-minded, God-defying men and women VOLUNTEER real fast!

I am wearied by the countless times people have told me: "God will NEVER make anyone do anything against their own free will." Oh, really? Show me the Scripture. Show me the SCRIPTURE!! Are any so STUPID as to believe that on the very day that Paul was on his way to Damascus to persecute and torture the Saints of Jesus Christ with nothing else on his mind, but he paused for a moment in the middle of the road and thought to himself, "You know, I think that I will not go to Damascus today and persecute Christians. I believe that I will right now exercise my ‘free will’ and repent of all these sins and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ Whom I have been persecuting. Yes, I think I will do that right now, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE." Is THAT what the Word of God says? IS IT? Or rather did not Christ MAKE His will PAUL’S WILL in mere SECONDS?

So many ignorant people just do not see that they are BLASPHEMING the very name, nature, and character (LOVE) of God by their demeaning and hate-filled accusations about what God can and cannot do! God went AGAINST the will of Paul (Saul), and God MADE His will PAUL’S WILL in a matter of SECONDS. But Christendom teaches that God doesn’t do such things. It just isn’t right. It just isn’t God’s way. WELL, YES, IT IS RIGHT, AND IT IS GOD’S WAY, AND HE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL ALL HUMANITY IS SAVED!

And so we learn that God converted the world’s worst sinner in a matter of seconds. We learned that The Father inspired Jesus to pray: "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." We also learned that the "them" in this prayer includes the whole world, for the Scriptures plainly tell us that it is the whole world that is accountable for Christ’s Crucifixion, even though it was performed by the express foreordained will of the Father.

Now then, what do these marvelous and profound Scriptures accomplish in the hearts and minds of those who are teaching "eternal torment?" Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING! These Scriptural truths have NO effect on the hearts of those depraved persons who delight in the prospects of an eternal hellhole of torture for most of humanity. But at God’s choosing, they will all melt as Paul did in the blinding light of God’s noonday Sun!

For those few of you whom God is beginning to speak to through His spirit, it should now start to become clear that nothing can thwart the will of God which is to SAVE ALL HUMANITY. God has spoken it; He has willed it; He will perform it.





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EKnight

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Re: Overcomers
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2008, 02:16:13 PM »

Okay. Great.  I now understand.  I just love this place!

Eileen
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Overcomers
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 04:51:50 PM »

Hi! Eileen

That's the first step in the right direction, "I just love this place!" Now keep reading Ray's teachings and keep growing and leave questions like "Who are the Elect" to God as only He knows. You'll find out soon enough for this life you have is  "Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away." (Jas.4:14). just a vapour and when it has passed on you will know. So keep on overcoming, and overcoming, and overcoming to the end and you will receive that prize that is the promise: ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. "To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God." (Rev.2:7,11,17,26) (Rev.3:5,12,21).


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     


   
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kweli

  • Guest
Re: Overcomers
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 08:50:50 AM »

Hello everybody

This is from Paul

2 Corinthians 13:5-6:
5 Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith. Test your own selves. Know ye not yourselves how Jesus Christ is in you, unless ye be reprobates?
6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
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