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Contracdiction

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EKnight:
Okay, I am now getting closer.  I just read your post to my husband and he paraphrased it as such:

To us, both the Father and Jesus are God (i.e. we see them both as the one true God).  However, Jesus recognizes God His Father's superiority to Him (Jesus). Does that sound right? 

Eileen

OBrenda:

--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on June 03, 2008, 09:36:42 AM ---You are missing the fact that it is the FATHER that is GREATER than Christ and not GOD that is GREATER THAN CHRIST.

Who [Jesus], being inherently in the form of God, deems it not pillaging [taking by force or plundering] to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).

"I am going to the Father, for THE FATHER IS GREATER  THAN I" (John 14:28).

Pay attention to the words and maybe you will see it. If the Lord wills.

Here are reasons why the Father is greater than Christ;

The Father is greater than Christ, but Christ is equal with God.

The Father never had a beginning. Christ has a beginning.

The Father was never given anything. Christ was given everything.

The Father will never bow down to Christ. Christ will one day bow down to The Father.

The Father was never created. Christ was, making Him the beginning of the creation.

The only reason Christ is equal with God is because the Father has lifted Him to this position through the things He suffered, endured etc.. but without the Father Christ would not have the power He does, and since The Father is also God, than Christ is equal with the Father only to this extent. Otherwise the Father is still greater for reasons i mentioned above.

I hope this helps your understanding.

Love in Christ,

Alex

--- End quote ---

Alex...Did God the Father create Jesus?  I had been told that they were always "One"?? 

Vangie:
Wow Rodger and Alex--great posts--thanks so much!

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: OBrenda on June 03, 2008, 08:19:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on June 03, 2008, 09:36:42 AM ---You are missing the fact that it is the FATHER that is GREATER than Christ and not GOD that is GREATER THAN CHRIST.

Who [Jesus], being inherently in the form of God, deems it not pillaging [taking by force or plundering] to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).

"I am going to the Father, for THE FATHER IS GREATER  THAN I" (John 14:28).

Pay attention to the words and maybe you will see it. If the Lord wills.

Here are reasons why the Father is greater than Christ;

The Father is greater than Christ, but Christ is equal with God.

The Father never had a beginning. Christ has a beginning.

The Father was never given anything. Christ was given everything.

The Father will never bow down to Christ. Christ will one day bow down to The Father.

The Father was never created. Christ was, making Him the beginning of the creation.

The only reason Christ is equal with God is because the Father has lifted Him to this position through the things He suffered, endured etc.. but without the Father Christ would not have the power He does, and since The Father is also God, than Christ is equal with the Father only to this extent. Otherwise the Father is still greater for reasons i mentioned above.

I hope this helps your understanding.

Love in Christ,

Alex

--- End quote ---

Alex...Did God the Father create Jesus?  I had been told that they were always "One"?? 

--- End quote ---

To build upon what Rodge has said;

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Concordant Literal New Testament translates that as; "God's creative Original."

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Consider this thought;

But to us there is but ONE GOD, the Father, OF Whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ BY Whom are all things, and we by Him" (I Cor. 8:6).

If ALL THINGS are out of GOD the FATHER than does "ALL THINGS" not also include JESUS CHRIST THE SON? If Jesus Christ the Son than did come out of the Father and was indeed "God's creative original" than yes Christ was created!

To your final question. Yes Christ and the Father are one. However being ONE does not mean they are the SAME PERSON. A father is always greater than a son, atleast in the spiritual sence and in the case of our Lord and His God, they are only equal because the Father has lifted up His Son into the place He deserves. As he humbles us and breaks us, so will He lift us as well.

In Christ with love,

Alex

P.S. I echo rodgers thoughts to you vangie. Thank you! =] God bless!

OBrenda:
Thank You Eileen..for the great question!
Thanks Alex and Rodger for helping me with this truth.  I recently was sharing about Christ with a few people and said "he was created" which brought strong correction from another that I was in great error, that Jesus always was part of the Father, he was never created!  I wasn't sure if I was mistaken or not.  I just always believed God the Father created Jesus "God the Son" to come into the World to die for our Sins.

The person whom corrected me was a believer in the Trinity, which I am working my way to the truth of through the help of kind people here!  You helped me!

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